An interesting subject.......at least it is for me.

It's been raining all day and Mrs B and I are in effect, under house arrest whilst pet sitting for two weeks down in not so sunny Hampshire. Deep joy, especially as we don't have any pets ourselves because they are a tie! So here I am bored and spending too much time looking at t'internet. Anyway, I found this video earlier on.


Yes, I know it's not a Cali but who cares. It's the same model, year and colour as our Cali and the only bits that are damaged are common to the Cali as well.

Interesting, we bought a caravelle T4 20 years ago as a family transport and it's become part of the family; we've still got it!

There seems to be a rash of youtubers putting wrecks back onto the road.
With that amount of frontal damage, how did the airbags not go off?
What do you think cost to replace all the parts and paint, 10k? It looks a well specced caravelle so no doubt led headlights and fogs.
You spend all that time and money to get it back on the road, it's still a right off. I think he'd have to keep it a long time to justify the cost of repairing it.

Salvage vehicles are usually bought blind, so it is hard to assess the extent of the damage and what's been broken / taken from the vehicle. As the video shows he didn't know if it would start or not even, he was lucky and it did.
It is possible to get lucky and the damage be fairly limited. If that's the case and you do all the repairs yourself you can end up with a good cheap vehicle. But most often the damage is worse than expected and it's the small things that really add up. Trim, plastic parts clips, mountings can all add up. Broken engine parts, for example if it hits the EGR which sits out front that's at least £1000 in parts etc. etc. If airbags deploy dashboard can be £1000s to replace. In those cases if you do the work yourself, you can end up with a slightly cheaper van but recorded as a write off. But if you don't do the work yourself I would say unless you are very lucky it would be hard to get a bargain. So basically a gamble, but sometimes it pays off.

To repair most of that though you just need a van thats been badly rear ended. Strip off the bits that you need & then sell on the remains. Bonnets, wings & grilles are easy to get & are the bits that cost the most if buying new from VW.

Labour is cheap if you are doing it yourself, even better if you can spray to a decent standard. On that van I would just be popping round the local body shop with a pair of wings & a bonnet.
I would quite happily fix the rest of that van myself, I wouldn't touch one that had damage to the rear side panels.

andyinluton said:

To repair most of that though you just need a van thats been badly rear ended. Strip off the bits that you need & then sell on the remains. Bonnets, wings & grilles are easy to get & are the bits that cost the most if buying new from VW.

Labour is cheap if you are doing it yourself, even better if you can spray to a decent standard. On that van I would just be popping round the local body shop with a pair of wings & a bonnet.
I wouldn't quite happily fix the rest of that van myself, I wouldn't touch one that had damage to the rear side panels.

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The man in the video mentioned that the chassis leg and inner wing were damaged and he was going to unpick / cut and replace the whole corner. It may be within your capabilities to remove, jig up and reweld in the chassis part and inner wing in. I would have a good try myself and could do the painting. But for most hobbyists that is well outside of a DIY job.

Going away from the T6 theme, so apologies in advance, but this T6 Caravelle job looks like childs play compared to the jobs Matt Armstrong has done. He is another You tuber that I enjoy watching. He was a complete novice when he started but is now rather experienced. He is helped by his father who really knows his stuff. Between them, they have rebuilt some really heavily crash damaged exotics that in my un-trained eye, were really only good for scrap. Here's one of his easier projects.


Beware, watch one episode and you will become addicted. Check out some of his other projects.

So back to the T6 Caravelle, having watched a lot of these rebuilds, this one looks to be quite straight forward. As for the economics involved, well that might not be that bad especially if he is putting in the hours for free. I suppose it would mainly depend on what he paid for it plus the parts required.

Borris said:

Between them, they have rebuilt some really heavily crash damaged exotics that in my un-trained eye, were really only good for scrap.

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I blame you for setting me off.
I have just bought a modified sports car from a guy whose hobby is buying older tired/damaged classic cars and restoring them. After restoration, he sells them on, not particularly for profit, but because he has achieved his objective with that vehicle and that's it. Once done, he's not really interested in driving it, it's the restoration that's the challenge.

Vagophile said:

I blame you for setting me off.
I have just bought a modified sports car from a guy whose hobby is buying older tired/damaged classic cars and restoring them. After restoration, he sells them on, not particularly for profit, but because he has achieved his objective with that vehicle and that's it. Once done, he's not really interested in driving it, it's the restoration that's the challenge.

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Now I have always found that phenomenon interesting. Quite often I have heard someone say that they enjoy the restoration aspect but have no interest in driving the vehicle when finished. I just find that very strange. Still each to their own I suppose. Personally, this is a good thing for me at least as I discovered years ago that it's far better and an awful lot cheaper to let someone else spend all their time and money doing the restoration before buying and using straight away. The trick is to find a vehicle that has been restored well. Unless it's something very valuable it will nearly always cost more to restore than it's worth.

So now you've got me wondering what youv'e just purchased. Please do tell.

Borris said:

So now you've got me wondering what youv'e just purchased. Please do tell.

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With apologies to the rest of the forum, you asked for it.
It's a 1974 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE with Cosworth 2.9 lit 24 valve engine, mated to a Mazda 5 speed gearbox with original rear axle. Corroded chassis outriggers replaced. (Massively) upgraded cooling with silicone hoses, completely refurbished braking system with uprated servo, new fuel tank and fuel lines, suspension overhaul with new alloy wheels and tyres. As a Scimitar afficionado , in my view he didn't quite complete the job, but it's an excellent basis for improvement and a fun daily driver with no breakdown/overheating worries.
Registered as a historic vehicle, it is VED, MoT and (most?) emission zone exempt and is insured under a classic car policy for (relatively) peanuts. What's not to like.
Weather's bad, otherwise I would have attached a photo, but I think that I have already gone well over the top .
One last comment, the engine was sourced from a hearse, from which vehicles there is apparently a good supply.

Vagophile said:

With apologies to the rest of the forum, you asked for it.
It's a 1974 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE with Cosworth 2.9 lit 24 valve engine, mated to a Mazda 5 speed gearbox with original rear axle. Corroded chassis outriggers replaced. (Massively) upgraded cooling with silicone hoses, completely refurbished braking system with uprated servo, new fuel tank and fuel lines, suspension overhaul with new alloy wheels and tyres. As a Scimitar afficionado , in my view he didn't quite complete the job, but it's an excellent basis for improvement and a fun daily driver with no breakdown/overheating worries.
Registered as a historic vehicle, it is VED, MoT and (most?) emission zone exempt and is insured under a classic car policy for (relatively) peanuts. What's not to like.
Weather's bad, otherwise I would have attached a photo, but I think that I have already gone well over the top .
One last comment, the engine was sourced from a hearse, from which vehicles there is apparently a good supply.

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Pretty sure you’ve bought a boat anchor!

sidepod said:

Pretty sure you’ve bought a boat anchor!

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Yes, there are always detractors, never has been an "in" car. That's why they are such good value.

Very interesting indeed. The Scimitar is a very rare luxury beast and all fibre glass I believe. With that engine and it's light body, it must now be a rocket ship with wheels, tyres, brakes and suspension to match. What's it like to drive. Lovely looking cars. I haven't seen one in years. A photo is definitely required when you can manage it. What was a hearse doing with a Cosworth engine? Express burials?

Digressing a little but bare with me, my interests lie in much much older cars. I have two from the veteran brass era, 1909 and 1912 respectively. I also have a gorgeous original vintage 1923 car which we only purchased last February.
Returning to the subject of repair/restoration I previously owned this lovely old duck:


Unfortunately, a previous owner had lost control of it on ice sometime in the 1950s and wrote off a coal truck in the subsequent collision. The resulting damage to this dear old car was a chassis that resembled a banana, a bonnet that didn't fit properly, a severely damaged front wing, a destroyed N/S front wheel, a bent front axle and a damaged gearbox casing as well as structural damage to the ash framing and numerous other less important issues. Despite that owner's hard work to rectify the damage, it was obvious that something nasty had occurred when I had thoroughly inspected the vehicle before deciding to buy. It's market value in the 1950s would almost certainly have written the vehicle off. Its saving grace was that the owner who we got to know very well, worked for Rolls Royce at Derby.
Anyway, I fell in love, bought and owned it for ten years. Despite it being a gorgeous car, the damage always niggled away at me and I did make enquiries into having it sorted out properly. However, that would have involved a body off, engine out strip down followed by specialist chassis straightening. And that wouldn't have been the end of it either as it required extra work in many other areas. In short, the costs involved would have far outweighed the value of the car. The crunch came when I received a large tax bill, so reluctantly, I sold her in 2016.

However, this story doesn't end there. I always said that I would have another 20hp Rolls one day but next time it would be an older example that was complete, original, in superb accident free condition and therefore not banana shaped. Accordingly, after a very long search during which my wife and I had travelled the land looking at various examples, I found just what I was looking for:

Emily, a 1923 Rolls Royce 20hp open drive Landualet by Hoopers will be 100 years old in October, three days before I turn seventy.

So the moral for me is inspect thoroughly, pick wisely and only buy vehicles that someone else has spent all their time and cash bringing up to scratch.

Borris said:

It's been raining all day and Mrs B and I are in effect, under house arrest whilst pet sitting for two weeks down in not so sunny Hampshire. Deep joy, especially as we don't have any pets ourselves because they are a tie! So here I am bored and spending too much time looking at t'internet. Anyway, I found this video earlier on.

Yes, I know it's not a Cali but who cares. It's the same model, year and colour as our Cali and the only bits that are damaged are common to the Cali as well.

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It's interesting but skip to 12m when the whole "look at me surprise my wife" clickbait part finishes so you can actually see the van work.

Not much idea of the cost either - could be a loss leader for YT views.

@Borris I'm aware of your fondness for the older lady from some of your previous posts. I posted of my only experience of a venerable Rolls under Cars I've Owned.
I think that I am in a lower league; I'm afraid that my preference is for something less stately, and not quite so old.
This GTE is the 6th I have owned (including chassis number 6 used by the factory) and is definitely the quickest with sharp handling, but a little tail happy. It's more of a country lane bruiser than a motorway cruiser.
I was told that many hearses are derived from top of the range Ford executive cars which had Cosworth engines fitted as standard.
Thanks @Steve1 for your support, good to know somebody appreciates classic design.

Vagophile said:

@Borris I'm aware of your fondness for the older lady from some of your previous posts. I posted of my only experience of a venerable Rolls under Cars I've Owned.

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/cars-i%E2%80%99ve-owned.22106/post-414110.

I think that I am in a ; I'm afraid that my preference is for something less stately, and not quite so old.
This GTE is the 6th I have owned (including chassis number 6 used by the factory) and is definitely the quickest with sharp handling, but a little tail happy. It's more of a country lane bruiser than a motorway cruiser.
I was told that many hearses are derived from top of the range Ford executive cars which had Cosworth engines fitted as standard.
Thanks @Steve1 for your support, good to know somebody appreciates classic design.

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Unfortunately, your link comes up with that annoying "Ooops we've run into a problem" thing. I will try the search function for "Cars I've owned" and report back.

"lower league" my @r$#. It purely comes down to whatever floats your boat. In my case veteran and vintage cars are now very much a niche market. These ancient cars appeal to less and less people these days as their owners are usually ancient and about to fall off their perch or have already done so. There can only be a handfull of old timers that could remember a hundred year old car when new.

OTOH your car and those of that period appeal to much a wider group of enthusiasts. That's because their owners either remember them when they were new and always espired to own one or their fathers had one.

Found it. A very interestng story. I can't imagine why Rolls Royce weren't that keen on the tow truck conversion or the Perkins diesel engine in one of their cars. Sounds like a good use for an obsolete vehicle to me.

That sort of thing used to happen to elderly cars in the post war years. In fact many Rolls Royce cars were used during the war years for all sorts of jobs. Some were converted into mobile canteen wagons, ambulances and fire pump tow trucks. Following that unpleasantness, some of these over engineered cars continued to work hard as taxi cabs etc well into the 1960s. Here is a wonderful video of one that has clearly seen better times.


Sorry everyone, we are straying well off topic but this is all very interesting.

How things change. From the registration, it doesn't seem to have survived, but I'm sure someone today would be very happy to own such a vehicle. Interesting that insurance doesn't seem to have been a problem for someone still at school.
I agree that they were superbly engineered and constucted.
My grandfather was a coachman who had his nose disjointed somewhat when his rich landowner employer (let's call him Lord L) decided to buy a car, which of course had to be a Rolls-Royce. Lord L decided that he would not have a chauffeur, but drive himself. Being the impatient sort, but believing himself to be capable of mastering such things easily he insisted that he did not nead a great deal of instruction (he thought).
His large mansion stood in the middle of a parkland area approached by a drive which was gated at the junction with the public road.
When Lord L turned into the drive and was confronted with the gates, he found to his horror that the Rolls-Royce failed to respond to cries of "Woah! woah!" and continued straight through the gates, completely flattening them and the supporting stone pillars.
Amazingly the only damage to the car was to the front bumper.
Of course, my grandfather delighted in repeating the story explaining how he transitioned from coachman to chauffeur.

What a great story. Did His Lordship hire a chauffer as well as a builder after that incident?

Re the paper boy, I don't know what petrol would have cost in the late 1960s but the cost of fuel alone would almost certainly have been more than a paper boy would have earned on his round. By then that Rolls had already been rebodied at least once and was clearly on its way down the slippery slope. Still, it may still be sitting in someones garage awaiting re-discovery.

Borris said:

Did His Lordship hire a chauffer as well as a builder after that incident?

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My grandfather, who had considerable mechanical aptitude, became the dual purpose chauffeur/coachman with another young underling literally taking up the reins as assistant coachman.
To wrap up this somewhat rambling thread:

Borris said:

A photo is definitely required when you can manage it.

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Anyone for tennis?

sidepod said:

Pretty sure you’ve bought a boat anchor!

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Looking at your list in the "Cars I've Owned" thread, I can see why you feel justified in jokingly (I hope) extracting the urine with a Scimitar owner. I would remind you that the marque has a thriving club competition and social scene as well as being a source of rare parts and a mine of information.
Never having owned a Porsche I don't know what their competition and social scene is like, but the Scimitar owners club is hard to beat as an introduction to the joys of owning a more unusual sporting classic.

Vagophile said:

My grandfather, who had considerable mechanical aptitude, became the dual purpose chauffeur/coachman with another young underling literally taking up the reins as assistant coachman.
To wrap up this somewhat rambling thread:

View attachment 111379 View attachment 111380

View attachment 111381

Anyone for tennis?

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That is an interesting car. What engine did it have when it left the factory? I'm sure the Cosworth lump is a big improvement.

I have always preferred my cars to be as original as possible but there are one or two that I have yet to own, that I would like to modify. One being the Citroën DS. That car was originally intended to have flat six under the bonnet but cost constraints meant that the power plants from the old Traction Avant series lived on. What could have been!

Borris said:

That is an interesting car. What engine did it have when it left the factory? I'm sure the Cosworth lump is a big improvement.

I have always preferred my cars to be as original as possible but there are one or two that I have yet to own, that I would like to modify. One being the Citroën DS. That car was originally intended to have flat six under the bonnet but cost constraints meant that the power plants from the old Traction Avant series lived on. What could have been!

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I'm sure Vagophile knows more about this, but the cosworth engine isn't the Sierra one with the turbo that everyone knows. It is an engine from the bigger cars like the Granada. The scimitar always used a big 6 cylinder ford engine as did the Granada. At some point ford had cosworth do a job in the big 6 cylinder cologne engine adding double over head cams and some other tweaks bringing it up to 200bhp ish I think. Not an animal of an engine like it's turbo charged brother just a power up grade for the big V6 lump. So really this is a very similar engine to the original ones fitted, just beefed up

Borris said:

What engine did it have when it left the factory?

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@Steve1is correct, the GTE was originally fitted with the 3 litre "Essex" Ford V6. Some specialists offered turbo charging, but they are rare. The engine in my car is as Steve1 describes with a power output of 210bhp but with fuel injection and, running on unleaded is a big improvement on the original without contravening the requirements for Historic car status.

Vagophile said:

Looking at your list in the "Cars I've Owned" thread, I can see why you feel justified in jokingly (I hope) extracting the urine with a Scimitar owner. I would remind you that the marque has a thriving club competition and social scene as well as being a source of rare parts and a mine of information.
Never having owned a Porsche I don't know what their competition and social scene is like, but the Scimitar owners club is hard to beat as an introduction to the joys of owning a more unusual sporting classic.

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Apologies. It wasn’t a Anti-Scimit thing (see what I did there?), more the corroded chassis. Resto jobs like that just leave me cold. I’ve never understood how people have the patience for “Trigger’s Broom” type projects?