Oxgyen - CO2 - midges

When we were in Scotland recently we encountered midges several times. We had not come prepared. I knew beforehand about midges but hadn't much time to prepare and honestly figured it wouldn't be that bad and thought we could always just drive off. When we noticed the midges they were already everywhere. I spend quite some time squashing them inside the van. Turned out they came through the poptop vents, but also, slowly, through the insect screens. We taped off the vents, put 2 insect screens over each other, but in the end we were forced to drive away and look for a better spot, without midges. Annoying, but basiclaly our own mistake. No problem. We'll come prepared next time.

We did wonder however, if it is safe to sleep in the van (2 kids downstairs, 2 adults upstairs) with just the poptop up and everything else locked and closed. Will there be suffiecien oxygen for everyone and not too much carbon dioxide? It's a tent...so I thought yes. But the vents were taped shut and the kids were downstairs.

Does anyone know?

Jerba sell midge screens with a much finer mesh which will allow some airflow in the van.

I bought one of these recently (flextail again) and although sceptical it does actually seem to work for midges and mosquitos. Doesn’t deter bigger flying beasts though! They aren’t toxic and can be used inside and out.

ThomasHJ said:

When we were in Scotland recently we encountered midges several times. We had not come prepared. I knew beforehand about midges but hadn't much time to prepare and honestly figured it wouldn't be that bad and thought we could always just drive off. When we noticed the midges they were already everywhere. I spend quite some time squashing them inside the van. Turned out they came through the poptop vents, but also, slowly, through the insect screens. We taped off the vents, put 2 insect screens over each other, but in the end we were forced to drive away and look for a better spot, without midges. Annoying, but basiclaly our own mistake. No problem. We'll come prepared next time.

We did wonder however, if it is safe to sleep in the van (2 kids downstairs, 2 adults upstairs) with just the poptop up and everything else locked and closed. Will there be suffiecien oxygen for everyone and not too much carbon dioxide? It's a tent...so I thought yes. But the vents were taped shut and the kids were downstairs.

Does anyone know?

Click to expand...

Also I have camped upstairs in extreme cold with everything shut and a Pucer screen which covers all the vents in the pop top. I’m still alive to tell the tale!

We still have a spare roll with some square meters of midge netting we bought a few years back to make overlay tent window covers. Interested, for your next trip there?

You might find this web site interesting / informative/ helpful in your quest to beat the little blighters!
It has some solutions, science and even a forecast to consider and minimise the impact the beasties have on your holiday.

I have one of these. Happy with the results, but have never come under a proper midge attack.

i've never heard of anyone using up all the oxygen in a closed up van,it's not a pressure vessel. worrying about nothing

ThomasHJ said:

When we were in Scotland recently we encountered midges several times. We had not come prepared. I knew beforehand about midges but hadn't much time to prepare and honestly figured it wouldn't be that bad and thought we could always just drive off. When we noticed the midges they were already everywhere. I spend quite some time squashing them inside the van. Turned out they came through the poptop vents, but also, slowly, through the insect screens. We taped off the vents, put 2 insect screens over each other, but in the end we were forced to drive away and look for a better spot, without midges. Annoying, but basiclaly our own mistake. No problem. We'll come prepared next time.

We did wonder however, if it is safe to sleep in the van (2 kids downstairs, 2 adults upstairs) with just the poptop up and everything else locked and closed. Will there be suffiecien oxygen for everyone and not too much carbon dioxide? It's a tent...so I thought yes. But the vents were taped shut and the kids were downstairs.

Does anyone know?

Click to expand...

These work, you'll wake up to a lot of dead midges:


My partner doesn't approve though, say's it's slowly killing us!

trev0rk said:

Vechline Rechargable Bug Killer Lantern | Halfords UK

Shop the latest This Vechline Rechargeable bug killer lantern not only lights up your campsite but also eliminates pesky bugs and mosquitoes. at Halfords UK

www.halfords.com

I have one of these. Happy with the results, but have never come under a proper midge attack.

Click to expand...

We actually bought this in Wales and brought it with us to Scotland. It worked in the sense that it lured and killed quite some midges, but my guess would be less then 10% of the total amount of midges. And this was -inside- the van.

bvddobb said:

We still have a spare roll with some square meters of midge netting we bought a few years back to make overlay tent window covers. Interested, for your next trip there?

Click to expand...

If you have no more need for it, I actually would be interested! Would be nice to go for a DIY solution for the air vents in the pop top and maybe even replace the mesh in the sliding window vents. Let me know how much you want for it.

ThomasHJ said:

We actually bought this in Wales and brought it with us to Scotland. It worked in the sense that it lured and killed quite some midges, but my guess would be less then 10% of the total amount of midges. And this was -inside- the van.

Click to expand...

I have one of these too and they work really well. The problem is they are designed to attract and kill bugs. With midges you really need to repel not attract or as you found they will overwhelm you! Thats why I purchased the Flextail Tiny Repel in addition. It creates a sort of no fly zone around it. It has two settings, a bigger 'reoel' area in outdoor mode with shorter run time or an indoor mode with a longer run time. It’s tried a true tech they have just integrated it into a small rechargeable package (others are either plug in 230v or use CO2 canisters) with the added bonus of a built in lantern.

ThomasHJ said:

If you have no more need for it, I actually would be interested! Would be nice to go for a DIY solution for the air vents in the pop top and maybe even replace the mesh in the sliding window vents. Let me know how much you want for it.

Click to expand...

We zullen het eens gaan opgraven!

Hi, I have spent nights in the van, two adults sleeping downstairs with the pop top closed and no windows open and we survived without being starved of oxygen. I think you prob don’t need to worry about that.

Re the midges, I am from Scotland and have a lot of experince with them (unfortunately). I feel your pain! Here are some tips for you…

The fly screens in the cali are designed to keep mosquitos out but the mesh is not remotely effective for midges. This is also true of the pop top canvas vents. I have fastened a square of nylon tights over the vents to stop the midges while allowing ventilation. Sounds weird but it works.

Midges mostly come out in large numbers at dusk for a few hours. During the day they tend to be dormant and roost on trees. So avoid pitches in the woods - this makes a huge difference. Dusk and after dusk is the time you need to keep the van doors and windows closed. So if you re preparing food, go inside and close the dooor behind you. Tell the kids to be in or out.

Midges are also attracted to light. One of the worst things you can do is leave the door open with a light on as you’ll end up with a pop top full of midges at bed time. Later in the evening you’ll find the midges die down again.

Above all else, they cannot fly in wind. Even a moderate breeze can be totally effective at keeping them out of the air. Without doubt this is your best defence. In summer I always go for a pitch that is away from trees and exposed enough to allow the wind to flow through.

A Smokey fire or an army of citronella joss sticks can help a little to keep the numbers down but a good breeze is unsurpassed.

In terms of chemical deterrents for the skin, Deet jungle formula (spray or roll-on) has a decent effect but this stuff is so nasty and tastes disgusting and I never use it. It’s also horrific if it runs into your eyes. The only think I would recommend is a an Avon product called Skin-so-soft… this is surprisingly effect but nobody knows why. It is also non-toxic. Smidge is the spray you will see in all the tourist shops but I haven’t found it to be effective and I don’t know anyone who swears by it. If you ah e to be outside at dusk, the best defence is to cover up, wear a hat and if necessary, put on a midge net over your head. Make sure you buy a net with a fine enough gauze. Remember, for the most part, you only need to ride it out for a few hours around dusk.

In certain environments you will see midges during the day too but this is much less common.

In terms of season, you’ll find the numbers are greater in mid to late summer. May and early june are the best times to tour Scotland. Especially last week in may and first week in June. It often has the best chance of sunshine and in may the midges have not yet emerged.

Good luck!

Thanks for the information @mikebravo. Haven't felt the urge to try nylon tights so far ;-), but for midges it sounds like a good solution. I don't like Deet either, so your tips are welcome. We'll come prepared next time. We have short holidays here in may each year , so perhaps a quicker visit in May might be an option.

flying banana said:

i've never heard of anyone using up all the oxygen in a closed up van,it's not a pressure vessel. worrying about nothing

Click to expand...

I agree; I think you’ll drown in condensation before the O2 runs out!

mikebravo said:

Hi, I have spent nights in the van, two adults sleeping downstairs with the pop top closed and no windows open and we survived without being starved of oxygen. I think you prob don’t need to worry about that.

Re the midges, I am from Scotland and have a lot of experince with them (unfortunately). I feel your pain! Here are some tips for you…

The fly screens in the cali are designed to keep mosquitos out but the mesh is not remotely effective for midges. This is also true of the pop top canvas vents. I have fastened a square of nylon tights over the vents to stop the midges while allowing ventilation. Sounds weird but it works.

Midges mostly come out in large numbers at dusk for a few hours. During the day they tend to be dormant and roost on trees. So avoid pitches in the woods - this makes a huge difference. Dusk and after dusk is the time you need to keep the van doors and windows closed. So if you re preparing food, go inside and close the dooor behind you. Tell the kids to be in or out.

Midges are also attracted to light. One of the worst things you can do is leave the door open with a light on as you’ll end up with a pop top full of midges at bed time. Later in the evening you’ll find the midges die down again.

Above all else, they cannot fly in wind. Even a moderate breeze can be totally effective at keeping them out of the air. Without doubt this is your best defence. In summer I always go for a pitch that is away from trees and exposed enough to allow the wind to flow through.

A Smokey fire or an army of citronella joss sticks can help a little to keep the numbers down but a good breeze is unsurpassed.

In terms of chemical deterrents for the skin, Deet jungle formula (spray or roll-on) has a decent effect but this stuff is so nasty and tastes disgusting and I never use it. It’s also horrific if it runs into your eyes. The only think I would recommend is a an Avon product called Skin-so-soft… this is surprisingly effect but nobody knows why. It is also non-toxic. Smidge is the spray you will see in all the tourist shops but I haven’t found it to be effective and I don’t know anyone who swears by it. If you ah e to be outside at dusk, the best defence is to cover up, wear a hat and if necessary, put on a midge net over your head. Make sure you buy a net with a fine enough gauze. Remember, for the most part, you only need to ride it out for a few hours around dusk.

In certain environments you will see midges during the day too but this is much less common.

In terms of season, you’ll find the numbers are greater in mid to late summer. May and early june are the best times to tour Scotland. Especially last week in may and first week in June. It often has the best chance of sunshine and in may the midges have not yet emerged.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

We go May and then late Sept. Oddly we've found SMidge worked better than Avon to which the midges seemed to stick!!!! As you've said keep away from trees and boggy areas and pitch where it's breezy

I just keep away from Scotland ( yes I do live there)