Strange Tyre Wear

Stewbie · Jun 25, 2023

Have had our 204 4M from new (sept '22) and it only has 9K miles on it.
Was shocked to discover the condition of the front NS tyre earlier today :-

Down to the canvas and wire reinforcement ! It wasn't like this a day or so ago, but I have noticed that the outer inch or so on both front tyres has worn excessively compared to the rest of the tyre (which still have loads of tread on) over a period of time.

Tyre pressures are both normal, and the vehicle has never been rallyed, raced or kerbed ! Nor has the factory-original suspension been altered in any way. I've never known wear like this in all my years of driving. But I have always wondered why the MPG is so poor (31 MPG max !). Could this be related ? The guy at the garage said it doesn't look like a tracking issue to him.

Clearly two new tyres are on order, and I won't drive the van until they're fitted, but I'm wondering what could cause such an issue if it's not tracking ?

montyburns1982 · Jun 25, 2023

I know nothing about calis but that looks like classic tracking issues to me. Had it on several cars over the years. Take it to another garage for a second opinion!

Perfectos · Jun 25, 2023

Get new tyres and have a Hunter 4 wheel alignment done.

where were you driving recently? The side walls look like they have been punished ?

Driving in ruts ?
heavy cornering ?

sidepod · Jun 25, 2023

Half a dozen hot laps of the Nurburgring by the look of it !!!!

On a straight flat (no camber) road, take your hands off the wheel, does it stay straight?
Hands off still , brakes on, does it pull to one side?

Stewbie · Jun 25, 2023

Perfectos said:
Get new tyres and have a Hunter 4 wheel alignment done.

where were you driving recently? The side walls look like they have been punished ?

Driving in ruts ?
heavy cornering ?

None of the above ! Normal round town driving like Miss Daisy
The side walls only have ‘tyre black’ dressing on from when I washed the car last week, and would have noticed the tyre then if it was like it is now

Stewbie · Jun 25, 2023

sidepod said:
Half a dozen hot laps of the Nurburgring by the look of it !!!!

On a straight flat (no camber) road, take your hands off the wheel, does it stay straight?
Hands off still , brakes on, does it pull to one side?

Yep, always drove straight and true, even under braking

Stewbie · Jun 25, 2023

montyburns1982 said:
I know nothing about calis but that looks like classic tracking issues to me. Had it on several cars over the years. Take it to another garage for a second opinion!

That’s what I've suspected, @montyburns1982 , but a ‘professional’ told me otherwise
Could that explain the poor MPG too ?

AndrewCook680 · Jun 25, 2023

Very strange - almost looks like it’s been rubbing on something in wheel arch

montyburns1982 · Jun 25, 2023

Stewbie said:
That’s what i

ve suspected, @montyburns1982 , but a ‘professional’ told me otherwise
Could that explain the poor MPG too ?

I had a Ford probe (remember them?) many years ago that had an almost identical wear pattern, it happened very rapidly too. However on reflection it was obviously the tracking as the steering constantly tried to pull to one side when driving at low speed.

Garages can make mistakes, I’d seriously get a second opinion before looking at anything else.

Kayleigh · Jun 25, 2023

That’s very rapid wear and at risk of a blow out!
Have you hit a pothole in the last week? Has the position of the steering wheel changed?
You don’t have wheel spacers fitted do you?
If the garage says the wheel alignment is ok, I would suggest you get the suspension properly checked as there may be some damage.

Cali Phillip · Jun 25, 2023

My 2019 150 does this, oem bridgestones lasted 8k, 4 of then mine. Tracking fine, swapped goodyear vector gen 3 and run them at 3.35 bar rather than factor 3.1bar.
Now get 11.5k out of a pair of sprited highland road driving.
I might swap to the suv version which Goodyear said could be better for wear being designed for vehicles higher centre of gravity.
Some seem to have success with new bushes, i get the impression they are softer then the vans but the vans also come with the commercial rated 215 tyres which wear much better but give a harsh ride.
In pure cost terms the tyres represent a small part of a California running costs, abojt 3p per mile so they would have to last a lot longer to make much difference.

Stewbie · Jun 26, 2023

Kayleigh said:
That’s very rapid wear and at risk of a blow out!
Have you hit a pothole in the last week? Has the position of the steering wheel changed?
You don’t have wheel spacers fitted do you?
If the garage says the wheel alignment is ok, I would suggest you get the suspension properly checked as there may be some damage.

I’m not aware of any pothole strikes, although they’re kind of hard to avoid nowadays
Van is mechanically unmodified from the day it was manufactured as we’ve had it from new

Perfectos · Jun 26, 2023

Send a photo of both tyres to Bridgestone !
they will respond with their thoughts

what pressures are you running ?

andyinluton · Jun 26, 2023

Do you use any multi-storey carparks?

I can shred the edges of our Merc GLC front tyres like that in a matter of weeks if I use our local station car park, its a combination of the extra gritty stuff that they put on the corners of the square spiral & it being four wheel drive which has the rear wheels trying to push the car forward whilst the fronts are are pointing sideways.
Ive had the same problem in that carpark with other cars as well.

Ozzy Pete · Jun 26, 2023

It’s not just potholes that can knock your tracking out but the plethora of speed bumps everywhere. Without doubt this is a tracking issue.
You are so lucky you saw this before plod saw it. That would have been 6 points off your license and sky high insurance for the next 5 years.

Ocean Spirit · Jun 26, 2023

@Stewbie
There are other similar threads and where myself and others have had similar issues.
Yours is quite extreme but its a familiar looking wear position and pattern to me and if you examine the other tyres over the next few thousand miles I bet the wear on them will be uneven too.
I don't understand why it happens to some and not to other Cali's it makes me wonder whether alignment wasn't done properly in the factory and should be (might already be?) a PDI requirement. If it is then it gets missed there too.
Or
Maybe it is done but as the vehicle settles on the road in the 1st months the settings are now wrong.
Either way mine is considerably better after 4 wheel alignment when fitting new tyres but I wouldn't say perfect.
I did around 16k before I needed to replace the 1st 2 tyres through wear spots so I did them all anyway and following the alignment I'm now on 50k on the same ones.
Uneven patterns are showing but it's been much less wearing allowing longer tyre life.
Just as possible contributions, the kitchen, the fuel tank, the ad-blue tank, the water tanks are all on one side. I could be wrong but I'm sure this can't help.

WelshGas · Jun 26, 2023

Ocean Spirit said:
@Stewbie
There are other similar threads and where myself and others have had similar issues.
Yours is quite extreme but its a familiar looking pattern to me and if you examine the other tyres over the next few thousand miles I bet the wear on them will be uneven too.
I don't understand why it happens to some and not to other Cali's it makes me wonder whether alignment wasn't done properly in the factory and should be (might already be?) a PDI requirement.
Or
Maybe it is done but as the vehicle settles on the road in the 1st months the settings are now wrong.
Either way mine is considerably better after 4 wheel alignment when fitting new tyres but I wouldn't say perfect.
I did around 16k before I needed to replace 2 tyres through wear spots so did them all anyway and I'm now on 50k on the same ones.
Uneven patterns are showing but its been much less wearing allowing longer tyre life.
Just as possible contributions, the kitchen, the fuel tank, the add blue tank, the water tanks are all on one side. I could be wrong but I'm sure this can't help.

It can only be some misalignment to cause such wear. I have a 4 motion and am now on my 6th set of tyres over 122,000 miles. I normally change tyres at a very conservative 3+ mm tread depth which means at 20,000 + miles. Tyre wear is even, front to rear side to side and tread depths are within 0.5mm across all tyres.

I've only used all season tyres, apart from the original tyres, from Goodyear or Michelin.

Kayleigh · Jun 26, 2023

WelshGas said:
It can only be some misalignment to cause such wear.

Yes. It is the cause of the misalignment that’s important. It could be a tracking problem, but it could also be a suspension problem. A proper mechanical assessment is required to determine what the underlying issue is.

Kayleigh · Jun 26, 2023

Ocean Spirit said:
Yours is quite extreme but its a familiar looking pattern to me and if you examine the other tyres over the next few thousand miles I bet the wear on them will be uneven too.
I don't understand why it happens to some and not to other Cali's it makes me wonder whether alignment wasn't done properly in the factory and should be (might already be?) a PDI requirement.
Or
Maybe it is done but as the vehicle settles on the road in the 1st months the settings are now wrong.
Either way mine is considerably better after 4 wheel alignment when fitting new tyres but I wouldn't say perfect.

When getting 4 wheel alignment done, some garages including VW will just check that everything is within the limits. When I recently fitted new front tyres I asked my local garage to centre everything when checking the alignment, which is exactly what they did. The van still pulled to the left slightly after this. They then ran it over a mechanical device that checks the tow and decided the front may be towing in slightly too much. Towing out both wheels by half a turn left the van steering pretty much perfectly. Sometimes there is no substitute for decades of experience

The Tall Luthier · Jun 26, 2023

The fact that both tyres are evenly worn suggests tracking. The camber angle is unlikely to change very much over a lifetime and certainly not in a way that would mirror on both sides.

Bad luck stewie.

UPDATE
Meant the camber angle not the Toe angle

andyinluton · Jun 26, 2023

The Tall Luthier said:
The fact that both tyres are evenly worn suggests tracking. The tow angle is unlikely to change very much over a lifetime and certainly not in a way that would mirror on both sides.

Bad luck stewie.

Tracking is the Toe angle......

The Toe angle can easily change with one decent hit of a kerb, speed bump or a pothole.

On T6 transporters ( I havn't got T6.1 info) its toe in of 5' plus or minus 10' when empty or 0' plus or minus 10' when fully loaded. The vw document for checking the angles is extremely specific as to what should be in the van when its checked & includes details as to where the toolkit needs to be stored & how much water is in the windscreen washer bottle.

Those figures mean you could be at minus 10' or plus 15' and still just in tolerance, I suspect you are at the plus 15' end of things, combine that with a few roundabouts & hot soft rubber & there's your tyres gone.

On the other hand a lot of toe in does make the steering self centre well.

dspuk · Jun 26, 2023

andyinluton said:
Tracking is the Toe angle......

Agreed. It's been a while since I wielded a spanner in anger but during my mechanic training this symptom perfectly matches a set of tyres "toeing in too much" and therefore wearing (on both sides) on the outer edge of a tyre as the van/car drives forward. If memory serves right they have to toe in anyway as the forward movement of a vehicle causes the tyre to naturally toe out so it's a tricky balance to get as they have to toe to perfectly straight when a vehicle is moving at speed. If you toe out too far, the wear is opposite - on both inner sides of a tyre. At the Nissan factory the final line used to set this just before the cars went into the test drive booth - very last job, tracking & light setting. TBH I'd be suprised if it left the factory like this, more likely something has been bumped or clanked. Given the state of UK roads - would be no surprise.

*disclaimer - it's 35 years since I did this!

Edit - this is all academic, I agree with others, it needs checking properly and cannot be diagnosed here.

Kayleigh · Jun 26, 2023

dspuk said:
Agreed. It's been a while since I wielded a spanner in anger but during my mechanic training this symptom perfectly matches a set of tyres "toeing in too much" and therefore wearing (on both sides) on the outer edge of a tyre as the van/car drives forward. If memory serves right they have to toe in anyway as the forward movement of a vehicle causes the tyre to naturally toe out so it's a tricky balance to get as they have to toe to perfectly straight when a vehicle is moving at speed. If you toe out too far, the wear is opposite - on both inner sides of a tyre. At the Nissan factory the final line used to set this just before the cars went into the test drive booth - very last job, tracking & light setting. TBH I'd be suprised if it left the factory like this, more likely something has been bumped or clanked. Given the state of UK roads - would be no surprise.

*disclaimer - it's 35 years since I did this!

That sounds about right. As i mentioned before, my local garage centred everything by laser and then adjusted the towing outwards by half a turn (but still towing in).
In the case of the OP, the wear looks like it happened very quickly over a period of a week, which could indicate a problem with the suspension that has caused the sudden abnormal wear.

Perfectos · Jun 26, 2023

Here’s a good Vid That shows the various geometry conditions.

for others trying to offer advice regarding geometry of a particular vehicle , exhibiting an issue, on a forum , is nonsense.

Problem = get it checked properly

dspuk · Jun 26, 2023

Perfectos said:
Here’s a good Vid That shows the various geometry conditions.

for others trying to offer advice regarding geometry of a particular vehicle , exhibiting an issue, on a forum , is nonsense.

Problem = get it checked properly

Worlds apart from the toe in equipment they gave me in the Army which was basically a massive rod that spanned both wheels with measurements at each end and sprung tips you placed against the outside rim of the wheels.

Strange Tyre Wear

Stewbie

montyburns1982

Perfectos

sidepod

Stewbie

Stewbie

Stewbie

AndrewCook680

montyburns1982

Kayleigh

Back in the ‘non-leaking’ T6 Beach

Cali Phillip

Stewbie

Perfectos

andyinluton

Ozzy Pete

Ocean Spirit

Eating Ice Cream, skimming stones.

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.

Kayleigh

Back in the ‘non-leaking’ T6 Beach

Kayleigh

Back in the ‘non-leaking’ T6 Beach

The Tall Luthier

andyinluton

dspuk

Dave

Kayleigh

Back in the ‘non-leaking’ T6 Beach

Perfectos

dspuk

Dave

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