Brand New VW California 6.1 - Biofuel?

mrdavidbear1234 · Apr 21, 2023

Hi, I'm hoping someone on here may be able to give me an answer because VW don't seem to be able to. I am considering buying a VW California 6.1 Ocean. As only diesel engines are available I would like the option of using some sort of Biofuel instead of 100% diesel. I have read the following on the vw website:

"Certain Volkswagen Group vehicle models are approved to run on 100% Rapeseed Methyl Ester (RME) Biodiesel. 100% RME Biodiesel compatible parts fitted during manufacture of the vehicle is denoted by the vehicle PR code 2G0, which is found on the data sticker; however some of the older vehicles may not have this PR code. Always refer to the Owner’s Handbook and factory information regarding the vehicle’s compliance with Biodiesel before using this fuel type."

I have asked VW via live chat, if the California has these RME Biodiesel compatible parts, but they have told me the following:

"We can't confirm this, because some vehicles are approved for it and other's are not. It would be in owners manual, of which you do not have yet."

I asked then to confirm that there was no way to know until I actually bought the vehicle and received it:

"You can't get it confirmed. Biodiesel, does not run on all vehicles, we might both own California's and I might have biodiesel option and you don't, it all depends on the engine"

I asked then if it was a gamble when I purchase as to what I might get, to which they replied "Yes".

Can anyone confirm this information for me, as I would be shocked if this was the really the case. Thank you.

RockinNRollin · Apr 21, 2023

It seems unlikely it's that random, that would suggest different internal components. It's more likely one of the engines is more suited than the other, e.g. 150 or the 204. If I was asked to guess, I'd say the 150 is more likely but modern engines are so complex and precise, who knows.

66tim99 · Apr 21, 2023

I remember reading (don't I?!) that the RDE2 engines (from c. July 2021?) are capable of running on biodiesel. I can't find confirmation though, or a later version of this
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/assets/common/pdf/general/biodiesel.pdf

mrdavidbear1234 · Apr 23, 2023

It’s the only way I can convince my other half that we can buy a diesel!

Kingfisher · Apr 23, 2023

The new 6.1 are now warranty approved for use of 100% HVO fuel (at least here in the Netherlands they are). I’ve used it for a bit this winter. The engine runs much more smoothly after a cold start, plus there is no diesel smell when starting the parking heater.

HVO (hydrotreated vegetable oil) is very different from the first generation (FAME and RME) biodiesel. Much better, I would say. I can’t remember seeing it at any filling station in the UK yet, but that might change in future?

66tim99 · Apr 23, 2023

Kingfisher said:
The new 6.1 are now warranty approved for use of 100% HVO fuel

Yes, in the U.K. too
https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com...ade-from-residual-and-recycled-materials-7691

66tim99 · Apr 23, 2023

Kingfisher said:
. I can’t remember seeing it at any filling station in the UK yet,

No, I can’t say I have. You can have it delivered but it is expensive. How is the price comparison in the Netherlands?

Kingfisher · Apr 23, 2023

66tim99 said:
No, o can’t say I have. You can have it delivered but it is expensive. How is the price comparison in the Netherlands?

This winter the HVO100 price has consistently been at € 0.80 above the cheapest basic diesel in my area. The price difference used to be less, so I guess demand must be rising. More companies seem to be using HVO, both for transport and for heavy machinery in e.g. road work.

Ch1pbutty · Apr 23, 2023

Kingfisher said:
This winter the HVO100 price has consistently been at € 0.80 above the cheapest basic diesel in my area. The price difference used to be less, so I guess demand must be rising. More companies seem to be using HVO, both for transport and for heavy machinery in e.g. road work.

Greener / Bio fuels are generally sold at a premium. Companies will pay more to be more sustainable. Saves them buying carbon credits to offset co2.

Wildcamper · Apr 25, 2023

While using waste vegetable oils to produce biodiesel may, just may, be a good use of the oils the use of prime agricultural land to grow crops for converting into fuel is, in my opinion, environmental vandalism. Such fuels may be bio, but in a bad way, and they are certainly not zero carbon once fertilizer, transport and processing are added in. Then one must consider the loss of food producing agricultural land v any benefit for fuel production. In my opinion food security is more important that fuel production. The same argument applies to land use for solar panels. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-we-allowing-solar-panels-to-swallow-up-our-farmland/

The next question is: is biodiesel good for engines? If one uses the engine every day then it might be ok. One issue with biodiesel (as the methyl ester) is that the esterification process results in a polar molecules that readily absorbs water and oxygen. Both of these will promote engine corrosion. In addition the high polarity of the biodiesel molecule will accelerate the degradation of most fuel pipelines and engine seals. This happens as a result of the biodiesel swelling the tubing and seal materials weakening them leading to rupture. Current diesel contains a low percentage of biodiesel which is probably just about ok. But fuels with high concentrations of biodiesel will very likely lead to problems. Personally, I would not let high concentrations of biodiesel anywhere near my T6 engine, no matter what VW say. Add to this my view on biodiesel being environmental vandalism and one will conclude that I am not a fan. I won't be wrecking my engine and I vote for food production.

Wildcamper · Apr 25, 2023

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.etipbioenergy.eu/images/ufop_brochure_rape_seed_2013.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiB_du33sX-AhUdQvEDHayeCQgQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw12oPwCU_ReInYXzo5Z41l5

Kingfisher · Apr 25, 2023

Wildcamper said:
While using waste vegetable oils to produce biodiesel may, just may, be a good use of the oils the use of prime agricultural land to grow crops for converting into fuel is, in my opinion, environmental vandalism. Such fuels may be bio, but in a bad way, and they are certainly not zero carbon once fertilizer, transport and processing are added in. Then one must consider the loss of food producing agricultural land v any benefit for fuel production. In my opinion food security is more important that fuel production. The same argument applies to land use for solar panels. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-we-allowing-solar-panels-to-swallow-up-our-farmland/

The next question is: is biodiesel good for engines? If one uses the engine every day then it might be ok. One issue with biodiesel (as the methyl ester) is that the esterification process results in a polar molecules that readily absorbs water and oxygen. Both of these will promote engine corrosion. In addition the high polarity of the biodiesel molecule will accelerate the degradation of most fuel pipelines and engine seals. This happens as a result of the biodiesel swelling the tubing and seal materials weakening them leading to rupture. Current diesel contains a low percentage of biodiesel which is probably just about ok. But fuels with high concentrations of biodiesel will very likely lead to problems. Personally, I would not let high concentrations of biodiesel anywhere near my T6 engine, no matter what VW say. Add to this my view on biodiesel being environmental vandalism and one will conclude that I am not a fan. I won't be wrecking my engine and I vote for food production.

I fully agree, on both your points. These are the main reasons why HVO is preferable to the ’old’ biodiesel. Plus, it really is a very smooth drive

vmaxkiddy · Apr 26, 2023

Wildcamper said:
While using waste vegetable oils to produce biodiesel may, just may, be a good use of the oils the use of prime agricultural land to grow crops for converting into fuel is, in my opinion, environmental vandalism. Such fuels may be bio, but in a bad way, and they are certainly not zero carbon once fertilizer, transport and processing are added in. Then one must consider the loss of food producing agricultural land v any benefit for fuel production. In my opinion food security is more important that fuel production. The same argument applies to land use for solar panels. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-we-allowing-solar-panels-to-swallow-up-our-farmland/

The next question is: is biodiesel good for engines? If one uses the engine every day then it might be ok. One issue with biodiesel (as the methyl ester) is that the esterification process results in a polar molecules that readily absorbs water and oxygen. Both of these will promote engine corrosion. In addition the high polarity of the biodiesel molecule will accelerate the degradation of most fuel pipelines and engine seals. This happens as a result of the biodiesel swelling the tubing and seal materials weakening them leading to rupture. Current diesel contains a low percentage of biodiesel which is probably just about ok. But fuels with high concentrations of biodiesel will very likely lead to problems. Personally, I would not let high concentrations of biodiesel anywhere near my T6 engine, no matter what VW say. Add to this my view on biodiesel being environmental vandalism and one will conclude that I am not a fan. I won't be wrecking my engine and I vote for food production.

From my kitchen window I can see approximately 200 acres of arable land, all of which is growing crops for bio mass or bio fuel, this has been the case for a number of years. If I venture further the fields are mainly a sea of yellow at the moment, rape seed everywhere.

Wildcamper · Apr 26, 2023

How Corn Ethanol Fueled Climate Change

The Renewable Fuel Standard promised to pay farmers to fight climate change and boost U.S. energy independence. A new five-year study of its impact on land use suggests that it did neither—even while it fueled fertilizer use and water pollution.

civileats.com