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UK roads

CaliforniaSeb

CaliforniaSeb

Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
165
Location
Somerset
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204
Driving back our new runaround in the dark into a massive pot hole. Alloy trashed. A friend of mine did the same yesterday. I am wondering whether it is worthwhile owning a nice viechle anymore in the uk? Our roads are a disgrace. Not taking a view in EVs , but it will get worse because of their weight. I really don't want to drive in the dark anymore.
 
Not to get into an EV rabbit hole, I don't have one, but having launched one I'm well aware of the myths surrounding them.

The weight issue is a myth that has been busted numerous times so I think it is worth calling it out.

Roads are generally a local council issue and each one has their own budget, or not, to fix them - I'm a parish councillor so have been embroiled in pothole complaints for some time.

Yes, they are atrocious, and yes, when driving through countries like France, our roads can feel very third world in places. But credit where credit is due, our council has been going through all key roads like a dose of salts with a magic resurfacing machine and it's made a massive difference. Of course, everyone then complained that the loose stones were an issue. The great British public.

That yours may not is for sure something to rally against them about.
 
dspuk said:
Not to get into an EV rabbit hole, I don't have one, but having launched one I'm well aware of the myths surrounding them.

The weight issue is a myth that has been busted numerous times so I think it is worth calling it out.

Roads are generally a local council issue and each one has their own budget, or not, to fix them - I'm a parish councillor so have been embroiled in pothole complaints for some time.

Yes, they are atrocious, and yes, when driving through countries like France, our roads can feel very third world in places. But credit where credit is due, our council has been going through all key roads like a dose of salts with a magic resurfacing machine and it's made a massive difference. Of course, everyone then complained that the loose stones were an issue. The great British public.

That yours may not is for sure something to rally against them about.
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Sorry but no credit is due to anyone, our roads are a disgrace with no investment or maintenance to drainage, we all know where our money goes and is wasted on…..it’s not what our 50k pride and joys drive on.
 
Billywizz said:
Sorry but no credit is due to anyone, our roads are a disgrace with no investment or maintenance to drainage, we all know where our money goes and is wasted on…..it’s not what our 50k pride and joys drive on.
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I think you will find we are in violent agreement, the roads are pants. But I’m not going to rant about it for the sake of it when our local council have actually done something about most key roads.

No point in being that bloody minded that I cannot recognise that something was done, even if it’s the tip of an iceberg.
 
CaliforniaSeb said:
Driving back our new runaround in the dark into a massive pot hole. Alloy trashed. A friend of mine did the same yesterday. I am wondering whether it is worthwhile owning a nice viechle anymore in the uk? Our roads are a disgrace. Not taking a view in EVs , but it will get worse because of their weight. I really don't want to drive in the dark anymore.
Click to expand...
A Cali is a darn sight heavier than en EV....... just sayin ;)
 
Why is it that pot holes get filled in , only a short time later to break apart… something to do with ‘not doing it right’. A bit like ‘building cladding’, inferior concrete, hospital and school and most other public building that seem to have been completed by, should I say ‘Private or PPF ‘ companies that suddenly go into liquidation when the ‘sh.. hits the fan’.
Someone somewhere is making a few bob, or is it just kindly donors and benefactors.
 
French roads are the gold standard. With the Swiss not far behind. The contrast crossing from Switzerland to Italy is stark. It's like the roads are made from Emmental.
 
Enduring memory of touring NW Scotland this year, particularly Skye, fabulous scenery but you miss so much by needing to constantly navigate your van on the 6” strips of unbroken tarmac and avoiding the craters.
 
I wonder whether road density has anything to do with it? England has a lot of roads per square mile, much more dense than Wales or Scotland, France and Spain.
That means the tax pounds we have for road repairs per head of the population has to stretch further.

That said, as a cyclist, the country roads around my home are in a fantastic state, I can do 50 miles and cruise smoothly the whole way around. Except the stretch right outside my estate, that is in terrible condition.
 
As someone who used to work in the highway sector (albeit over a decade ago) I can confirm there are numerous facets to this and (as usual) it's not as simple as it seems (and for simplicity, I'll exclude all the human factors around vehicle use, increasing weight of vehicles, move away from public transport etc. and just stick to the engineering side of things):

1) The road network saw fairly substantial growth and generous investment in the 90s, meaning a lot of new surface was laid within a relatively short period of time

2) Labour's de-trunking scheme of the early 2000s transferred a huge number of roads into the local authority asset inventories; their budgets didn't really adjust accordingly (as anyone who has had a peek at local authority finance models, if you don't spend X in year 1, don't necessarily expect to get as much as X allocated again in year 2), but it wasn't a short term issue as the condition of the roads was reasonable

3) The materials used in road surface construction were of a better quality 30 years ago; they simply lasted better

What happened was a combination of these three factors meant that from the early 2010s lots of road surfaces were heading towards the end of their natural life simultaneously, but many local authorities had been enjoying a period of relatively low budget demands for highway maintenance. When faced with deteriorating assets without the massive budgets needed for full-scale resurfacing, they turned to mechanisms that would prolong the life of the network; things like patching and surface dressing. While perfectly acceptable when done correctly, ultimately it's just kicking the problem down the road (sorry for the pun) for what as is turns out is an increasingly austere public finance picture.

So fundamentally local authorities have a massive financial obstacle at a time when they're on their knees. Yes, this is partly due to short-sighted funding decisions but every government organisation, local or national, tends to only think as far as the next election.

Finally, the situation has been exacerbated by the massive increase in "third party claims" (i.e. claiming for a bent wheel after hitting a pothole, or falling off a bike and claiming personal injury). 20 years ago this was very rare, OK so yes there were less defects to "trip up on", but the whole culture has changed. Now the default is "where there's a blame, there's a claim" and a whole industry of people supporting this. The problem is, as soon as a highway authority is notified of a defect that might potentially be dangerous and/or contravenes their intervention levels, they then have to go and inspect it and "make it safe" and they are obliged to do this within a certain time period (usually depending on the severity). The action associated with the latter will be a quick fix as you can't resurface an entire road every time. The cost of these little fixes, the fact they're short notice and can't be programmed effectively means it is disruptive and expensive, draining an already scarce budget.

It's a bit of a perfect storm really with no easy way out unfortunately.
 
Corradobrit said:
French roads are the gold standard. With the Swiss not far behind. The contrast crossing from Switzerland to Italy is stark. It's like the roads are made from Emmental.
Click to expand...
I was amazed at how good they were. Their b roads are as good as our best a roads. We just accept such low standards in the UK now .
 
RockinNRollin said:
As someone who used to work in the highway sector (albeit over a decade ago) I can confirm there are numerous facets to this and (as usual) it's not as simple as it seems (and for simplicity, I'll exclude all the human factors around vehicle use, increasing weight of vehicles, move away from public transport etc. and just stick to the engineering side of things):

1) The road network saw fairly substantial growth and generous investment in the 90s, meaning a lot of new surface was laid within a relatively short period of time

2) Labour's de-trunking scheme of the early 2000s transferred a huge number of roads into the local authority asset inventories; their budgets didn't really adjust accordingly (as anyone who has had a peek at local authority finance models, if you don't spend X in year 1, don't necessarily expect to get as much as X allocated again in year 2), but it wasn't a short term issue as the condition of the roads was reasonable

3) The materials used in road surface construction were of a better quality 30 years ago; they simply lasted better

What happened was a combination of these three factors meant that from the early 2010s lots of road surfaces were heading towards the end of their natural life simultaneously, but many local authorities had been enjoying a period of relatively low budget demands for highway maintenance. When faced with deteriorating assets without the massive budgets needed for full-scale resurfacing, they turned to mechanisms that would prolong the life of the network; things like patching and surface dressing. While perfectly acceptable when done correctly, ultimately it's just kicking the problem down the road (sorry for the pun) for what as is turns out is an increasingly austere public finance picture.

So fundamentally local authorities have a massive financial obstacle at a time when they're on their knees. Yes, this is partly due to short-sighted funding decisions but every government organisation, local or national, tends to only think as far as the next election.

Finally, the situation has been exacerbated by the massive increase in "third party claims" (i.e. claiming for a bent wheel after hitting a pothole, or falling off a bike and claiming personal injury). 20 years ago this was very rare, OK so yes there were less defects to "trip up on", but the whole culture has changed. Now the default is "where there's a blame, there's a claim" and a whole industry of people supporting this. The problem is, as soon as a highway authority is notified of a defect that might potentially be dangerous and/or contravenes their intervention levels, they then have to go and inspect it and "make it safe" and they are obliged to do this within a certain time period (usually depending on the severity). The action associated with the latter will be a quick fix as you can't resurface an entire road every time. The cost of these little fixes, the fact they're short notice and can't be programmed effectively means it is disruptive and expensive, draining an already scarce budget.

It's a bit of a perfect storm really with no easy way out unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Nice to see a well thought out and informative reply. It’s a shame it’s easier to just write “it’s rubbish, sort it” than to take the time to understand what the problems are, why and what you can do about it.
 
dspuk said:
Nice to see a well thought out and informative reply. It’s a shame it’s easier to just write “it’s rubbish, sort it” than to take the time to understand what the problems are, why and what you can do about it.
Click to expand...
There's not an awful lot that can be done about it unfortunately! At least, not while the current financial climate in local (and national) government persists. Fundamentally highways are a massive infrastructure asset that requires multi-decade level of strategic planning to be managed effectively; the level of investment needed fluctuates wildly and really a decent reservoir of funding needs to be accumulated during the troughs to be then used to smooth over those peaks, but no authority will ever sanction that (or probably even could) where there are other services that are also cash-strapped. The solution? A bucket load of money now to deal with the immediate issues (which as we know, are significant), an increase in capable contractors to deliver that (as there just wouldn't be enough to get through it at any reasonable pace), then a well thought out plan for the next 20 years or so by every local authority of their entire road network (which would involve some fairly heavy crunching of inspection data).
 
I thought that was where the HS2 money was going.

60BACA1D-FC3D-444A-A503-50B9550E0FE7.png
 
I am not an engineer, but surely many of these roads have been allowed to deteriorate beyond repair and need to be dug up .I really regret not taking out alloy insurance now.
 
CaliforniaSeb said:
I am not an engineer, but surely many of these roads have been allowed to deteriorate beyond repair and need to be dug up .I really regret not taking out alloy insurance now.
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Exactly. Dropping some tar in the holes is a waste of time and money. It will take a massive amount of money to do it properly and at the end of the day the taxpayer picks up the bill. So be it, if France can do it, we can do it.
 
I am feeling as though I am watching this country sleepwalk into what we would call third world conditions.

The roads really are atrocious, and my bicycle crash last summer was 80% in part due to the poor conditions of the road, 20% to the driver that gave me no choice but to swerve into the worst part of that road.

My Sister called an ambulance last October, in answer to the question "is the patient breathing?" her answer was "barely" as the patient was disappearing down the tubes with an asthma attack. 3.30am and the nearest ambulance was over 20 miles away, the other side of Brighton. The patient (me) at one time could breath no more, just as the call handler (who stayed talking to me until the ambulance arrived) told me they had just crossed over Shoreham viaduct. That time of the morning with blue lights and still 20 minutes away.

Southern water continually dump effluent into the bit of the coastline that my grandchildren like to swim in: really, in 21st Century UK we have to consult a SW website to check if the water is safe to swim in.

Don't talk about trains and busses and other public transport, and I was party to the privatisation of NBC.

The best comment made so far in this thread was about politicians only seeing as far as the next election. Strategically, from energy to roads to public utilities we seem to just flounder without a plan. I took part in a beauty parade the other week to choose a candidate to oppose my local MP, Peter Bottomley, at the next election. Talk to any of the candidates about topics other than last weeks PM Question time and they were totally clueless. Despite being a member of the party in opposition I will continue to vote for Sir Peter if he stands again for he has been a damned good constituency MP. Better the devil you know...etc.

I struggle to formulate an answer, even with my opinionated mind.
 
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CaliforniaSeb said:
Driving back our new runaround in the dark into a massive pot hole. Alloy trashed. A friend of mine did the same yesterday. I am wondering whether it is worthwhile owning a nice viechle anymore in the uk? Our roads are a disgrace. Not taking a view in EVs , but it will get worse because of their weight. I really don't want to drive in the dark anymore.
Click to expand...
Did you take photographs of the pothole and damage to your alloy? If not it’s worth doing and making a claim against your local authority. You’ll also need estimates for supply and fitting of the new alloy (and tyre), along with tracking/alignment.
A high percentage of claims are apparently rejected but I would give it a go. Good luck.
 
GrannyJen said:
Talk to any of the can dilates
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Haha I can't quite tell if this was spell checker or a play on words. I suspect the latter, but in context 'can't dilates' would have been a better fit?
 
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