T5 240v Inverter - Warning

gatvol · Jun 20, 2023

I have had my 2011 SE since new. In that time it had destroyed 2x electric toothbrush chargers. I have read on here that others have experienced similar issues with toothbrush chargers. I had out this down to being a specific toothbrush issue ie dual voltage etc etc

So for years we have only really charged things when hooked up to a proper 240v supply

We have just had 4 days at farmyard campsites without power hookups. That inverter wrecked my wife's laptop which will no longer take a charge. We have tried it with a known, good, battery charger at home that has been nowhere near the California.

Use that inverter socket at your peril !!!

dspuk · Jun 20, 2023

This is a well known ”issue” with older inverters and their modified sine waves. For many items they work fine, for some not at all (electric toothbrushes for instance). For some items they work, but you need to be careful as just leaving something charging for a long time, like a laptop, can cause issues. Top ups work best. Pretty sure a quick search will bring up more sine wave detail.

For balance the new 6.1 300W inverters have a pure sine wave and do not suffer this problem. The 150W may have also but I cannot confirm.

This provides a good overview:

A Guide to Inverters - The Camping and Caravanning Club

Looking for electricity to power household kit while not connected to the mains grid? We look at the pro and cons of inverters that have the potential to provide AC power in this guide.

www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk

jeff · Jun 20, 2023

gatvol said:
Use that inverter socket at your peril !!!

Works fine with ipad & iPhones

Corradobrit · Jun 20, 2023

Ran a 110W projector and charged a laptop with my T6.1 inverter. No issues at all.

dspuk · Jun 20, 2023

Corradobrit said:
Ran a 110W projector and charged a laptop with my T6.1 inverter. No issues at all.

Pure vs modified sine waves. Us 6.1s are lucky to have the pure, meaning zero electronics issues. The OP has a T5 with a modified wave meaning much more limited sensitive electronics capability.

kurienp · Jun 21, 2023

dspuk said:
Pure vs modified sine waves. Us 6.1s are lucky to have the modifed, meaning zero electronics issues. The OP has a T5 with a pure wave meaning much more limited sensitive electronics capability.

It's the other way around.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

dspuk · Jun 21, 2023

kurienp said:
It's the other way around.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

<Face Palm> - updated.

yossarian · Jun 21, 2023

dspuk said:
new 6.1 300W inverters have a pure sine wave

Have we confirmed this with a 'scope or reference to the manual?

dspuk · Jun 21, 2023

yossarian said:
Have we confirmed this with a 'scope or reference to the manual?

I took the info from the forum on a trip a member had to a specialised Cali dealer who imparted a load of info on the new 6.1’s. One of those was the new pure sine wave. I have no other reference TBH but the lack of buzzing when using it to charge a laptop is a good indication.

Thread 'Tips and tricks & info. What I can share after a day at Camper Centrum Amersfoort, The Netherlands.'
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...per-centrum-amersfoort-the-netherlands.47935/

For belt and braces I just read the Cali supplement manual - says nothing useful about sine waves or what can/can’t be plugged in. Just says the max for the inverter plug is 300W and living area plug (on EHU) 2500W.

Interesting side bar for portable solar users is it actually says to NOT plug solar into 12V sockets as you can damage the vehicle charging the batteries through the 12V socket. The total draw you should also connect to 12V, single or multiple, is 120W.

Be interesting to see if a T5 manual does say to not use the inverter plug on sensitive electrical equipment e.g. Laptops.

yossarian · Jun 21, 2023

dspuk said:
I took the info from the forum on a trip a member had to a specialised Cali dealer who imparted a load of info on the new 6.1’s. One of those was the new pure sine wave. I have no other reference TBH but the lack of buzzing when using it to charge a laptop is a good indication.

Thread 'Tips and tricks & info. What I can share after a day at Camper Centrum Amersfoort, The Netherlands.'
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...per-centrum-amersfoort-the-netherlands.47935/

For belt and braces I just read the Cali supplement manual - says nothing useful about sine waves or what can/can’t be plugged in. Just says the max for the inverter plug is 300W and living area plug (on EHU) 2500W.

Interesting side bar for portable solar users is it actually says to NOT plug solar into 12V sockets as you can damage the vehicle charging the batteries through the 12V socket. The total draw you should also connect to 12V, single or multiple, is 120W.

Be interesting to see if a T5 manual does say to not use the inverter plug on sensitive electrical equipment e.g. Laptops.

Ah, hence the term 'flat sine wave' which I was struggling to work out. I guess it's probably literal Dutch / Flemish for 'pure'.

I'm not really set up for it at the moment and it's easy to pop your 'scope hooking it up to ac without an isolation transformer. But if I get the chance I'll post the results.

dspuk · Jun 21, 2023

yossarian said:
Ah, hence the term 'flat sine wave' which I was struggling to work out. I guess it's probably literal Dutch / Flemish for 'pure'.

I'm not really set up for it at the moment and it's easy to pop your 'scope hooking it up to ac without an isolation transformer. But if I get the chance I'll post the results.

I had a look for best ways to check - either an oscilloscope or a small desk oscillating fan that will buzz seems to be the answer!

The first link I posted to CCC makes most sense - Pure is a wave that is smooth and up and down. Modified is one that is up and down but artificially, so "modified" which introduces steps that sensitive equipment does not like. For the OP though the article seems to suggest the laptop is not goosed, just the charger, so worth a check.

seasiders1 · Jun 25, 2023

gatvol said:
I have had my 2011 SE since new. In that time it had destroyed 2x electric toothbrush chargers. I have read on here that others have experienced similar issues with toothbrush chargers. I had out this down to being a specific toothbrush issue ie dual voltage etc etc

So for years we have only really charged things when hooked up to a proper 240v supply

We have just had 4 days at farmyard campsites without power hookups. That inverter wrecked my wife's laptop which will no longer take a charge. We have tried it with a known, good, battery charger at home that has been nowhere near the California.

Use that inverter socket at your peril !!!

Same here with our T5, we had an old Oral B charger which worked fine, then had 2 newer ones which were wrecked by inverter. Sadly I binned the old charger as it was much bigger Haven’t used the inverter since…

pluc99 · Jun 25, 2023

dspuk said:
This is a well known ”issue” with older inverters and their modified sine waves. For many items they work fine, for some not at all (electric toothbrushes for instance). For some items they work, but you need to be careful as just leaving something charging for a long time, like a laptop, can cause issues. Top ups work best. Pretty sure a quick search will bring up more sine wave detail.

For balance the new 6.1 300W inverters have a pure sine wave and do not suffer this problem. The 150W may have also but I cannot confirm.

This provides a good overview:

A Guide to Inverters - The Camping and Caravanning Club

Looking for electricity to power household kit while not connected to the mains grid? We look at the pro and cons of inverters that have the potential to provide AC power in this guide.

www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk

Thanks for the link, a lot of useful information there!

I have some doubts about the T6.1 inverter having pure sine wave output. I think the T6.1 may have a better modified wave inverter with smaller iterations than previous Cali models, but if it the output were really pure wave, VW would have put it in the manual.

I put the question to VW in Switzerland last year and they were unable to get any confirmation from VW Germany and suggested that it very likely wasn't pure sine wave.

gatvol · Jun 25, 2023

Given the potential for damage, it is much safer to use a cigar socket charger on your laptop or valuable items.

We used a cigar lighter charger for years on our old sony laptop without issue. The inverter killed a HP laptop in a matter of days.

Corradobrit · Jun 25, 2023

gatvol said:
Given the potential for damage, it is much safer to use a cigar socket charger on your laptop or valuable items.

We used a cigar lighter charger for years on our old sony laptop without issue. The inverter killed a HP laptop in a matter of days.

Laptop or power brick? Have a hard time believing further down the chain is destroyed. The adapter regulates output and more likely to fail first if there is a dodgy power supply.

Ch1pbutty · Jun 25, 2023

gatvol said:
Given the potential for damage, it is much safer to use a cigar socket charger on your laptop or valuable items.

We used a cigar lighter charger for years on our old sony laptop without issue. The inverter killed a HP laptop in a matter of days.

Agree. That’s why most laptop manufacturers sell a dedicated 12v charger. Usual rules apply, avoid any charger that has not been approved by the manufacturer.

You won’t damage the vans socket, but you can destroy an expensive laptop etc.

If you want to run expensive kit in the van using a normal home plug / charger then it’s worth buying a pure sine wave inverter and connect to the vans battery. They are far cheaper than a replacement laptop.

T5 240v Inverter - Warning

gatvol

dspuk

Dave

A Guide to Inverters - The Camping and Caravanning Club

jeff

Home is where you park it !

Corradobrit

dspuk

Dave

kurienp

dspuk

Dave

yossarian

dspuk

Dave

yossarian

dspuk

Dave

seasiders1

pluc99

A Guide to Inverters - The Camping and Caravanning Club

gatvol

Corradobrit

Ch1pbutty

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