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Will solar panels charge the engine battery once the leisure batteries are full?

chockswahay

chockswahay

VIP Member
Messages
1,321
Location
Kernow
Vehicle
T6.1 Coast 150
My understanding is that on EHU once the leisure batteries are full the system will then trickle charge the engine battery. Does anyone know (for sure) if the same would apply to solar charging?

Edit: I am aware of the dual chargers that can be used but I assume a truck load of extra grief and cost, also if the answer to the above question is yes then why would I want a dual charger?
 
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My understanding is that with a std MPPT, like the one I have, no, it will only charge the leisures. Roger details this in his FAQ and also offers with his kit a dual MPPT charger. My assumption though, due to the way the batteries are fused and switched that you would need to run wires from the charger to the starter direct. That is a level of hassle I would avoid personally and it seems 99% of the time would add little to nothing to the experience. One assumes the EHU can manage it as it goes through its own control unit. With solar you are just attaching straight to the battery terminals.

This:

1682246235445.png

and this:

1682246172780.png
 
Thanks @dspuk. I had wondered along similar lines. My reason for asking is that every now and then we all seem to stumble upon something weird and wonderful that VW continues to offer up :D and I was (am?) hoping that this might be the case here. I agree with you about the extra hassle too. My main concern is that I will need to leave the van parked up for a few weeks at a time this summer (no EHU) and I would not like to see the engine battery deplete itself. I like Rogers kit but his web site does seem a little old fashioned and out of date (this won’t prevent me from ordering from him tho’)

Also it would appear that the Epever app is very basic and won’t work on my IPhone anyway :eek:
 
chockswahay said:
My understanding is that on EHU once the leisure batteries are full the system will then trickle charge the engine battery. Does anyone know (for sure) if the same would apply to solar charging?

Edit: I am aware of the dual chargers that can be used but I assume a truck load of extra grief and cost, also if the answer to the above question is yes then why would I want a dual charger?
Click to expand...
Victron unit will only charge leisure (to 100%).

Dual chargers are easy to fit and do not cost that much more…but are larger in size so wouldn’t fit in the Jack compartment of our beach (not so much of an issue in an Ocean as you have more cupboard space to hide it).

Believe there is another way of setting up both batteries to charge leisure, then main without the need for a dual charger. You can connect something under the passenger seat. It’s been covered on the forum but I can’t find the link.

We just carry a small lithium booster starter pack, that we leave plugged into one of the 12v leisure sockets..so it’s always fully charged (from solar) and so is ready for use should we ever have an issue with the starter battery.
 
chockswahay said:
Thanks @dspuk. I had wondered along similar lines. My reason for asking is that every now and then we all seem to stumble upon something weird and wonderful that VW continues to offer up :D and I was (am?) hoping that this might be the case here. I agree with you about the extra hassle too. My main concern is that I will need to leave the van parked up for a few weeks at a time this summer (no EHU) and I would not like to see the engine battery deplete itself. I like Rogers kit but his web site does seem a little old fashioned and out of date (this won’t prevent me from ordering from him tho’)

Also it would appear that the Epever app is very basic and won’t work on my IPhone anyway :eek:
Click to expand...
No issues. As I have said to many others who ask about battery depletion, and I'm sure you are aware, if you park up for a few weeks and your charger battery depletes you have a root cause problem that needs fixing that a solar panel trickle charging won't fix. Ours sits on the drive for a few weeks at a time with no issues. Sure it would sit for longer and if it was a month I would put on EHU for a day as per manual, or take it for a drive.
 
chockswahay said:
Thanks @dspuk. I had wondered along similar lines. My reason for asking is that every now and then we all seem to stumble upon something weird and wonderful that VW continues to offer up :D and I was (am?) hoping that this might be the case here. I agree with you about the extra hassle too. My main concern is that I will need to leave the van parked up for a few weeks at a time this summer (no EHU) and I would not like to see the engine battery deplete itself. I like Rogers kit but his web site does seem a little old fashioned and out of date (this won’t prevent me from ordering from him tho’)

Also it would appear that the Epever app is very basic and won’t work on my IPhone anyway :eek:
Click to expand...
Ref kit and site. Agree on the site, clearly web design is not his forte, but given solar is, I forgive him. Depends on where you want to spend your budget. The panels and everything else are great, and in reality, just ordered in. The curly cable and attachment of panel to the brackets I think he does himself. TBH the angle iron (but alu) attachment for the panels is a little heath robinson, but works and means you can get them on and off quicker. Had I the time, workshop and inclination I'd probably design something a little sleeker.
 
Roger installed our 200W system with an Epever MPPT controller and in addition to the leisure battery connections ran a wire to the split charge relay under the passenger seat for charging the starter battery.
 
GrumpyGranddad said:
Roger installed our 200W system with an Epever MPPT controller and in addition to the leisure battery connections ran a wire to the split charge relay under the passenger seat for charging the starter battery.
Click to expand...
Thanks GG. I am wondering about this but previous threads seem to indicate real grief to fit (I will be doing this myself). I’ll send Roger an email I reckon :thumb

Do you use the app? I have iPhone mini
 
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chockswahay said:
Thanks GG. I am wondering about this but previous threads seem to indicate real grief to fit (I will be doing this myself). I’ll send Roger an email I reckon :thumb

Do you use the app? I have iPhone mini
Click to expand...
Yes, I think running the cable under the kitchen units is a bit fiddly but it didn’t take Roger too long.
No don’t use an App. I’ve got the remote display fitted on the C pillar above the fridge.
For me the solar install was fit and forget.

IMG_3938.jpeg
 
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dspuk said:
Ref kit and site. Agree on the site, clearly web design is not his forte, but given solar is, I forgive him. Depends on where you want to spend your budget. The panels and everything else are great, and in reality, just ordered in. The curly cable and attachment of panel to the brackets I think he does himself. TBH the angle iron (but alu) attachment for the panels is a little heath robinson, but works and means you can get them on and off quicker. Had I the time, workshop and inclination I'd probably design something a little sleeker.
Click to expand...
I leave the California for just over 5 weeks at Heathrow in the depth of winter. No problem starting.
 
If it's occasional just buy two fused cigarette lighter plugs and bridge the two buses by plugging the front lighter socket into the rear.

To avoid excessive current you could put in a 5 Ohm 25W resistor or run the engine and wait for the current on the panel to get under 8A or so.
 
yossarian said:
If it's occasional just buy two fused cigarette lighter plugs and bridge the two buses by plugging the front lighter socket into the rear.

To avoid excessive current you could put in a 5 Ohm 25W resistor or run the engine and wait for the current on the panel to get under 8A or so.
Click to expand...
Exactly, but I would add a switch just to avoid any possible sparks when first connecting.

As @dspuk said, if in one/two weeks the starter battery is depleted you have a much bigger problem. Unless you constantly switch the radio and courtesy light on on the cabin the starter battery will be fine. For reference, during lockdown, 3 months without touching my Cali and it fired straight up.
Maybe first buy a cig plug Voltmeter for the cabin to check first, before going to lenghts to solve a problem that doesn't even exist.
 
My van has been parked up for the last 3 months, all batteries at 12.8V . I have an automotive fuse bridging the split charge relay which is pretty much the same thing.
 
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@yossarian @WelshGas @Calimili Due to a few non van commitments I will have to put this on hold for a few weeks, however just to add to this...... My concern re engine battery might well be unnecessary (?)...... it stems from being at our son's place in Cornwall in January when the engine battery dropped to 12.1 volts over a 10 day period which was a surprise....... although I suspect that it was because we did not drive the van once in that time but did open and close the doors a couple of times a day..... also I was using VW Connect every day too....... I understand that these may have contributed to excessive battery drain ?

We will be spending quite a lot of time in Cornwall this summer and the van will be left in a Marina car park for a few weeks at a time, other than that we normally use EHU at home if needed. The solar panel for leisure use appeals to us for the obvious reasons generally quoted to extend off hook battery use.

@yossarian I like the idea of the bridging the two buses with the cig sockets, but the automotive fuse sounds even better (?). Which is more simple/doable by DIY? In my former life I was quite happy with 415v AC but that was quite specific and still lost on me at times (as pilots we only really had to have a basic 'need to know' knowledge of the systems onboard).

If I can use the bridging method for the few occasions that would probably suit just fine :)
 
chockswahay said:
...... it stems from being at our son's place in Cornwall in January when the engine battery dropped to 12.1 volts over a 10 day period which was a surprise....... although I suspect that it was because we did not drive the van once in that time but did open and close the doors a couple of times a day..... also I was using VW Connect every day too....... I understand that these may have contributed to excessive battery drain ?

We will be spending quite a lot of time in Cornwall this summer and the van will be left in a Marina car park for a few weeks at a time, other than that we normally use EHU at home if needed. The solar panel for leisure use appeals to us for the obvious reasons generally quoted to extend off hook battery use.
Click to expand...
Just get one of these. Can be used if the starter battery needs some help; (Charge it off the leisure 12v socket from solar power):

www.halfords.com

NOCO GB40 1000A Jump Starter | Halfords UK

Shop the latest NOCO GB40 1000A Jump Starter UltraSafe Lithium Jump Starter at Halfords UK
www.halfords.com www.halfords.com
 
chockswahay said:
@yossarian I like the idea of the bridging the two buses with the cig sockets, but the automotive fuse sounds even better (?). Which is more simple/doable by DIY? In my former life I was quite happy with 415v AC but that was quite specific and still lost on me at times (as pilots we only really had to have a basic 'need to know' knowledge of the systems onboard).

If I can use the bridging method for the few occasions that would probably suit just fine :)
Click to expand...

As I recall it's a matter of removing the seat and two 10mm nuts on the relay. I can send you a moulded fuse holder with the right ring terminals on it or just pick it up in town.

I'm theoretically back on Thursday.
 
chockswahay said:
@yossarian @WelshGas @Calimili Due to a few non van commitments I will have to put this on hold for a few weeks, however just to add to this...... My concern re engine battery might well be unnecessary (?)...... it stems from being at our son's place in Cornwall in January when the engine battery dropped to 12.1 volts over a 10 day period which was a surprise....... although I suspect that it was because we did not drive the van once in that time but did open and close the doors a couple of times a day..... also I was using VW Connect every day too....... I understand that these may have contributed to excessive battery drain ?

We will be spending quite a lot of time in Cornwall this summer and the van will be left in a Marina car park for a few weeks at a time, other than that we normally use EHU at home if needed. The solar panel for leisure use appeals to us for the obvious reasons generally quoted to extend off hook battery use.

@yossarian I like the idea of the bridging the two buses with the cig sockets, but the automotive fuse sounds even better (?). Which is more simple/doable by DIY? In my former life I was quite happy with 415v AC but that was quite specific and still lost on me at times (as pilots we only really had to have a basic 'need to know' knowledge of the systems onboard).

If I can use the bridging method for the few occasions that would probably suit just fine :)
Click to expand...
You should be OK.
Everytime you unlock the vehicle and open the drivers door the vehicle thinks you are about to drive. Not only will the front cabin lights go on, depending on switch position, but ALL the electronics are powered up, diagnostic checks done, fuel pump primed etc. and it takes at least 20 mins for everything to shut down after the vehicle is locked. Using the sliding door or tailgate uses power for the soft close mechanism and even more power for a full electric sliding door.
 
yossarian said:
As I recall it's a matter of removing the seat and two 10mm nuts on the relay. I can send you a moulded fuse holder with the right ring terminals on it or just pick it up in town.

I'm theoretically back on Thursday.
Click to expand...
Thats a kind offer thank you. However I am out of time and won't be in Edinburgh for a while. When you get a minute if you can post up the parts/method that will be grand. No rush tho' so any time will do :thumb
 
chockswahay said:
I like the idea of the bridging the two buses with the cig sockets, but the automotive fuse sounds even better (?). Which is more simple/doable by DIY?
Click to expand...

A cheap & simple solution? about £12 just connect from a leisure battery socket to a starter battery socket.

charger.jpeg
 
Ch1pbutty said:
Just get one of these. Can be used if the starter battery needs some help; (Charge it off the leisure 12v socket from solar power):

www.halfords.com

NOCO GB40 1000A Jump Starter | Halfords UK

Shop the latest NOCO GB40 1000A Jump Starter UltraSafe Lithium Jump Starter at Halfords UK
www.halfords.com www.halfords.com
Click to expand...
A great idea........ but a bit spicy on the price for now:( I seem to have a purchase list for van and boat that gets longer by the day :D
 
The jump starters are indeed an alternative but I would prefer to avoid a run down battery in the first place. Hopefully as @WelshGas says the drain I have experienced will reduce if the van if left on its own (and I stop looking at VW Connect!)
 
a switched cig plug (kitchen) to cig plug (dash) is the simplest, cheapest, and easily reversible option that exists. But if you leave the car alone for a few weeks you won't need even that. Like i said, i left my Ocean during lockdown for 3 months and it started right up. Of course i didn't open and close doors multiple times each day....
No really different to any car left parked during holiday for a few weeks.
 
IMO a good option for adding to an existing installation is the Sterling Battery to Battery Maintainer. It's fairly cheap and doesn't require wires to be run between the batteries, (it' can be wired across the split charge relay under the passenger seat. Not designed to re-charge a flat battery.

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

Sterling Battery-Battery Maintainer 12V-12V, 3A

The Sterling B2B Maintainer diverts a small current from a charging source to a second battery, preventing self-discharge & extending battery service life.
www.12voltplanet.co.uk
 
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