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4x NEW 2023 T6.1 Ocean 204, full spec with 30km, available in Germany ~90k€ (each)

  • Thread starter chris ratay traveler
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chris ratay traveler

chris ratay traveler

Overlanding South America w T6.1 Ocean 204, 4M+
VIP Member
Messages
161
Location
Budapest
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 204 4 motion
I just recently picked up my new van in Germany, and as prices are all over the place, I thought I would share this here if anyone is looking to buy a van in Europe.

I bought mine from Hasselberg GmbH in Hamburg - Conrad has been selling vehicles for about 30 years, and loves VW Cali's. He orders them on spec from a dealer in Belgium (he ordered 5 of them 3 years ago). Apparently Belgium has a very high luxury tax, which impacts the Ocean, so VW allows the dealer to purchase at a lower price (I think it's similar in Scandinavia).

The van gets a 1 day Belgian registration, which allows him to import to Germany without Belgian luxury taxes, and just add the lower German VAT. My van got a one day registration in Sept 2023, and the van arrived in Hamburg at the end of Oct 2023. I paid a total of 89,249€ it on Nov 2nd - 73,949 plus 1,050 for COC and delivery, plus 19% VAT.

Hasselberg says he ordered with every feature possible: ie Locking Rear Diff, Hill Decent, Removable Tow Hitch (installed), Awning, small window in sliding door, electric sliding door, 80L tank, heated seats, upgraded tailgate struts, 18" Palmerston alloys, 4 sets of keys, heated windshield, heated seats, and more... I asked why so loaded, and he said it just makes them easier to sell expensive vans when there are no "missing" features.

I just used the configurator here in Hungary and the price came to 119,881€. When we spoke a few months ago, they said lead-time was 6-18 months.

He ordered my van plus 4 others 3 years ago, and has been waiting since. The other 4 are arriving in the coming weeks, with info below. Going forward, he said VW won't allow the Belgian dealer (and Germany too) to export vehicles unless they are 1-year old. He also said he believes this will cause prices to escalate even more. He doesn't know how he'll get more in the future.

The last photo was a screenshot of available comparable vans when I was shopping in Oct - pricing was all over the place!






2022-11-26 13.55.31.jpg

WhatsApp Image 2022-10-26 at 11.05.50 AM.jpeg

Pop up roof.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

"We TRAVEL not to escape life, but so LIFE doesn't escape us!"​

You should be careful concerning your laudable mantra as it seems to me you are wishing your life away with all your talk of 2023 in your post. :D ;) :thumb
 
i paid VAT (TVA) of 21% on my vans, but on the ocean and coast and beach camper there is no luxury tax. in fact registration and road tax are almost nothing because it is a camper van. (if it wasn't it would be very very expensive.)
 
Jabberwocky said:

"We TRAVEL not to escape life, but so LIFE doesn't escape us!"​

You should be careful concerning your laudable mantra as it seems to me you are wishing your life away with all your talk of 2023 in your post. :D ;) :thumb
Click to expand...
Sure, but while you're Forever Young(ish), I'm pretty sure I have less kms ahead of me than I do behind.... :cool:.

Cappadocia.jpg
Work. Play. LIVE! was our motto for many years while selling houses - We would work 60-75 hours/week for 10 months of the year, then leave and travel Dec-Jan. After a few years, we added the Travel tagline onto our vacation business cards.

2019 Dec Card Front.jpg

The Preliminary mockup of the new van has the tagline in Spanish. Still needs work, but it's a start...;)
Viajamos Version 1.1.jpg
 
Dealer is making a bit of killing on that price. He would have paid considerably less 3 years ago. Point of reference although not identical as its a Coast

Edition spec
4Mo
DSG
204 PS
wood effect floor
Pano bellows (hopefully the new MY23 version)
4 keys
upgraded battery
4 keys
AS tyres
ACC
80L fuel tank
removable towbar
awning
soft close sliding door
reversing camera and distance sensors F/R
Tint
Parking heater
Folding mirrors.

Total after reimportation to Germany and paying local VAT..... 67,800 euro
 
babble said:
i paid VAT (TVA) of 21% on my vans, but on the ocean and coast and beach camper there is no luxury tax. in fact registration and road tax are almost nothing because it is a camper van. (if it wasn't it would be very very expensive.)
Click to expand...
I don't know the specifics, just repeating that the seller told me they he can buy at a significantly cheaper net price in Belgium and import to Germany, than to buy directly in Germany.

I just ran a configurator on the Hungarian website for the same build and significantly more than I paid, even before 27% VAT

HU Price Configurator.png
 
that's possible, they may be much cheaper in Belgium, i was just saying there is no luxury tax here on a new ocean.
 
Corradobrit said:
Dealer is making a bit of killing on that price. He would have paid considerably less 3 years ago. Point of reference although not identical as its a Coast

Edition spec
4Mo
DSG
204 PS
wood effect floor
Pano bellows (hopefully the new MY23 version)
4 keys
upgraded battery
4 keys
AS tyres
ACC
80L fuel tank
removable towbar
awning
soft close sliding door
reversing camera and distance sensors F/R
Tint
Parking heater
Folding mirrors.

Total after reimportation to Germany and paying local VAT..... 67,800 euro
Click to expand...
I have no problem with him making whatever profit he can, as long as I get a price I'm happy with. It was the lowest price I found at the time, and without the need for buying awning, detachable tow hook, or extra window in door. Not sure if the others had electric sliding door.

We became friendly and chatted about it, and he said VW kept raising the price and he could either accept it, or cancel the order (they'd sell it to someone else) - I believe him. I was in Real Estate and builders have been doing the same thing to buyers for the last few years... too much demand and not enough supply. In fact, they've been leaving the final price open as material prices have skyrocketed.

I just posted a reply. above, and my price here in Hungary would be 120K€, with no confirmed delivery date.
 
babble said:
that's possible, they may be much cheaper in Belgium, i was just saying there is no luxury tax here on a new ocean.
Click to expand...
Curious - How much is a new Ocean (including tax) and with what options?
 
chris ratay traveler said:
I just recently picked up my new van in Germany, and as prices are all over the place, I thought I would share this here if anyone is looking to buy a van in Europe.

I bought mine from Hasselberg GmbH in Hamburg - Conrad has been selling vehicles for about 30 years, and loves VW Cali's. He orders them on spec from a dealer in Belgium (he ordered 5 of them 3 years ago). Apparently Belgium has a very high luxury tax, which impacts the Ocean, so VW allows the dealer to purchase at a lower price (I think it's similar in Scandinavia).

The van gets a 1 day Belgian registration, which allows him to import to Germany without Belgian luxury taxes, and just add the lower German VAT. My van got a one day registration in Sept 2023, and the van arrived in Hamburg at the end of Oct 2023. I paid a total of 89,249€ it on Nov 2nd - 73,949 plus 1,050 for COC and delivery, plus 19% VAT.

Hasselberg says he ordered with every feature possible: ie Locking Rear Diff, Hill Decent, Removable Tow Hitch (installed), Awning, small window in sliding door, electric sliding door, 80L tank, heated seats, upgraded tailgate struts, 18" Palmerston alloys, 4 sets of keys, heated windshield, heated seats, and more... I asked why so loaded, and he said it just makes them easier to sell expensive vans when there are no "missing" features.

I just used the configurator here in Hungary and the price came to 119,881€. When we spoke a few months ago, they said lead-time was 6-18 months.

He ordered my van plus 4 others 3 years ago, and has been waiting since. The other 4 are arriving in the coming weeks, with info below. Going forward, he said VW won't allow the Belgian dealer (and Germany too) to export vehicles unless they are 1-year old. He also said he believes this will cause prices to escalate even more. He doesn't know how he'll get more in the future.

The last photo was a screenshot of available comparable vans when I was shopping in Oct - pricing was all over the place!

Feel free to contact Conrad on WhattsApp with questions - he is very responsive and made the process super easy. +49 172 9997999

home.romoto.de

Hasselberg GmbH-Hamburg

Das aktuelle Fahrzeugangebot, die Leistungen und die Kontaktdaten von Hasselberg GmbH in Hamburg finden Sie hier.
home.romoto.de
Not sure when Conrad will list them on his site, but he sent me the info below.

1 and 2 for end of year
1. VW CALIFORNIA T6.1 OCEAN
2.0 TDI 204 DSG 4MOTION DCC "EDITION"
2J Pure Grey

2. VW CALIFORNIA T6.1 OCEAN
2.0 TDI 204 DSG 4MOTION DCC "EDITION"
B4 Candy White

As numbers 3 and 4, I got this two-tone California in advance for January/February...
3. VW CALIFORNIA T6.1 OCEAN
2.0 TDI 204 DSG 4MOTION DCC
9798 Reflex - Indium Grey

4. VW CALIFORNIA T6.1 OCEAN
2.0 TDI 204 DSG 4MOTION DCC
9791 Candy White - Ascot Grey

View attachment 103076

View attachment 103080

View attachment 103081

View attachment 103082
Click to expand...
Horrible import/tax shenanigans but that glossy fortana red with Palmerstons looks tremendous!
 
For those asking how this is possible a very brief explanation. When at Nissan we had this problem a lot in the 90’s - the “grey market” sprung up across Europe because of very high VAT rates in the Nordics (Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland). As a manufacturer we had to keep the overall sales price the same across europe which meant the possibility to slip cars across borders to save money was exploited.

In simple numbers with a 50% sales VAT rate (Denmark at the time) and 100K price tag the dealer could move a car across a border to a lower tax country (say 20% UK) and save 30K. His (the dealers) sales margin rom VW is the same, but volumes go up so he makes a profit. Some dealers were ordering and moving hundreds of cars.

Danish Price - 100K ticket price was 50K van cost, 50K VAT. 100K to a Danish customer.
English Price - 100K ticket price is still 50K van but moved across the border only 20K VAT. 70K to English customer.

If buying from a UK dealer legit though the cost would still be 100K as the English dealer price is 80K Sales and 20K VAT. Hence why it started happening a lot.

Most OEMs though knocked this on the head and started penalising dealers who did this and not supplying cars to them. Eventually it died out.

Of course it clearly still happens, like this, but VW would take a very dim view on the dealer that supplies this chap vans. With a volume of 5 it’s easy to miss, but if they do spot the dealer they will remove his bonus margins for breaking their agreements.
 
dspuk said:
For those asking how this is possible a very brief explanation. When at Nissan we had this problem a lot in the 90’s - the “grey market” sprung up across Europe because of very high VAT rates in the Nordics (Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland). As a manufacturer we had to keep the overall sales price the same across europe which meant the possibility to slip cars across borders to save money was exploited.

In simple numbers with a 50% sales VAT rate (Denmark at the time) and 100K price tag the dealer could move a car across a border to a lower tax country (say 20% UK) and save 30K. His (the dealers) sales margin rom VW is the same, but volumes go up so he makes a profit. Some dealers were ordering and moving hundreds of cars.

Danish Price - 100K ticket price was 50K van cost, 50K VAT. 100K to a Danish customer.
English Price - 100K ticket price is still 50K van but moved across the border only 20K VAT. 70K to English customer.

If buying from a UK dealer legit though the cost would still be 100K as the English dealer price is 80K Sales and 20K VAT. Hence why it started happening a lot.

Most OEMs though knocked this on the head and started penalising dealers who did this and not supplying cars to them. Eventually it died out.

Of course it clearly still happens, like this, but VW would take a very dim view on the dealer that supplies this chap vans. With a volume of 5 it’s easy to miss, but if they do spot the dealer they will remove his bonus margins for breaking their agreements.
Click to expand...
In the 80s personal imports were all the rage. I bought many cars from Belgium and Ireland and saved thousands.
You could buy a brand new car then sell it in 6 months and still make a good profit.
Only problem was the varying exchange rates and you just had to hope they moved in your favour. This was before the € and Belgium had the Franc and Ireland the Punt.
The European and Irish models always had a much higher spec for the money.
 
Ozzy Pete said:
In the 80s personal imports were all the rage. I bought many cars from Belgium and Ireland and saved thousands.
You could buy a brand new car then sell it in 6 months and still make a good profit.
Only problem was the varying exchange rates and you just had to hope they moved in your favour. This was before the € and Belgium had the Franc and Ireland the Punt.
The European and Irish models always had a much higher spec for the money.
Click to expand...
Same - as a young squaddie in Germany I was also able to get a few cars fully tax free in the late 80's - even better savings!

Shame that even with the saving all I could afford on a soldiers wage was a Nissan Micra!
 
dspuk said:
Same - as a young squaddie in Germany I was also able to get a few cars fully tax free in the late 80's - even better savings!

Shame that even with the saving all I could afford on a soldiers wage was a Nissan Micra!
Click to expand...
In those days we had to pay the VAT (12.5%) and vehicle duty (10%) to customs when arriving in the UK on leaving the ferry. I imagine UK forces got a better deal, probably free of tax but think you probably had to keep the vehicle for a certain length of time before you could sell it.
 
Ozzy Pete said:
In those days we had to pay the VAT (12.5%) and vehicle duty (10%) to customs when arriving in the UK on leaving the ferry. I imagine UK forces got a better deal, probably free of tax but think you probably had to keep the vehicle for a certain length of time before you could sell it.
Click to expand...
6 months if memory serves me right to stop people buying them, driving to UK and selling immediately.
 
dspuk said:
6 months if memory serves me right to stop people buying them, driving to UK and selling immediately.
Click to expand...
I had to register the van in my friend's name - I'll have to drive it more than 7,000km and wait 6 months from that first registration date before I can register it at home in Hungary, otherwise I'll pay a 40% tax as a "new car import"
 
The best deals of all were as a Ford employee or relative of Ford employee. My wife’s Cousin worked for Ford in Swansea and we got 25% discount off all makes. We had 3 XR2s in 18 months and had to keep for 6 months between each. Even traded them back to Days our local Ford dealer and got more than we originally paid. One time they had a customer for our car waiting until we had picked up the new one. Those days are well gone. But wait haven’t we just gone through that again with Covid.? Prices seem to be coming down now as cars become more readily available.
 
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