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Bought a van for comfortable camping, but keeping the Cali

2into1

2into1

Née T4WFA. Now running 2006 LHD T5 SE 130 Manual
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Glossop
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T5 SE 130
Some of you long termers will know I've struggled with the 'jack of all trades master of none' Cali as my only vehicle vs a more comfortable camper AND a separate car. Indeed my forum name reflects the struggle. I thought I'd share the latest developments in my camper journey.

I have to admit I've never really got on with pop top Cali's for camping (unless in lovely weather) so since I sold my T4 Exclusive (high top, lwb, loo, separate kitchen) I've hardly camped, but still love the flexibility of the regular Cali for everyday life (carrying bikes, tip runs, moving furniture, cooking lunch out, keeping shopping cold in the fridge etc).

So with a new partner who's keen to camp (and pub stop) all year round, and now two dogs, I've bought a 6.36 Ducato based Vantage Neo
.

Having trialed it, you frankly would think it's 5m bigger inside than the Cali, rather 1.4m. Driving is more truck like, but feels more like an adventure. Yes it is a bit 70s caravan style inside vs the germanic alternatives many have swapped to when they've out grown their Cali, but the soft upholstery encourages proper lounging - that I couldn't see happening in the small dinette / fixed bed alternatives, with their upright and rigid foam seats.

The big down side I have is that I can't keep the Ducato at home so it lives a mile away at a stables and security means I have to book access 24 hours in advance.

So, the dilemma was which car to buy when I sold the Cali? My shortlisted vehicles kept growing in dimensions as I tried to keep as much of the Cali's (non camping) flexibility as possible and was soon at a lwb Citroën berlingo, to which I'd throw in a power bank, my portable fridge and camping stove for day trips out. They are almost the size of a Cali... And as I'm only the 2nd owner of my 06 Cali and it's been cherished all those years, it was a bit of a wrench to sell it..... So I decided to keep it!

Actually I lie, the biggest driver was wanting to stay on this forum and argue about egr coolers with welshgas (not!)

I'm a big user of electric bikes, and much prefer to transport them inside the van (security, not having to remove the battery and the challenge of lifting a 25kg bike onto the external rack with my bionic arm). I could fit my xl mountain bike inside with the rear bench moved all the way forwards and the stops removed, but then the kitchen and wardrobe are inaccessible. So with the help of a few hefty builders, the rear bench seat has been removed and replaced with a 5th seat on the kitchen side. The bike rolls down the empty side and is simply bungeed to the arm rest of the 5th seat. I can still get in the back from the front, still make brews etc. Front seats rotate to make the lounge and I can sleep in the pop top if the mood takes me. The 5th seat is more comfortable to relax in that the bench.

It also means that if I change my mind after a season with the Ducato (or the new partner!), I can return to living with just the cali again.

Hope this contributes to other members who struggle with the Cali's camping limitations. I'm aware that's not everyone (by far). Those that can hold it together with a family of 4 on a miserable wet weekend in a muddy field in their Cali.... I bow to you.... But that's not me.
 
Thank you for sharing your journey and decision making process with all. Some very interesting points you make. Yeah, needs change and as you have done, just customised everything around your needs.
So with the help of a few hefty builders, the rear bench seat has been removed and replaced with a 5th seat on the kitchen side. The bike rolls down the empty side and is simply bungeed to the arm rest of the 5th seat. I can still get in the back from the front, still make brews etc. Front seats rotate to make the lounge and I can sleep in the pop top if the mood takes me. The 5th seat is more comfortable to relax in that the bench.
Yeah, this is a cool change. Always wondered if there are two 5th individual seats, can they be flattened enough to help make as close to vertical to be able to sleep? Could make the Cali more flexible. :thumb

Actually I lie, the biggest driver was wanting to stay on this forum and argue about egr coolers

not about electric cars? ... which is the rage of all discussions on here this season (before camping season returns ;) )
 
Always wondered if there are two 5th individual seats, can they be flattened enough to help make as close to vertical to be able to sleep? Could make the Cali more flexible. :thumb
That would have been a super bonus, but alas not. They do fold flat forwards, which could give you a useful base to engineer a bed base. They don't fold flat backwards (recline), although the recline range is pretty big for comfortable lounging.
Also, perhaps for other readers, 2 x 5th seats won't fit side by side as they are much wider than half the rear bench.
 
That would have been a super bonus, but alas not. They do fold flat forwards, which could give you a useful base to engineer a bed base. They don't fold flat backwards (recline), although the recline range is pretty big for comfortable lounging.
Also, perhaps for other readers, 2 x 5th seats won't fit side by side as they are much wider than half the rear bench.
If you don't need the extra seat for travel purposes, have you thought about building a sideways facing sofa down the side of the van?

You can also use a Cab Bunk, instead of across the van span it between the 5th seat & the drivers seat lengthways - makes a pretty good emergency bed.
 
If you don't need the extra seat for travel purposes, have you thought about building a sideways facing sofa down the side of the van?

You can also use a Cab Bunk, instead of across the van span it between the 5th seat & the drivers seat lengthways
That would put the bike (if carried) between me and the kitchen, but I do see the benefit of the idea. As it stands I can have prime access to the kitchen and cupboards whilst the bike in on board.
 
If you don't need the extra seat for travel purposes, have you thought about building a sideways facing sofa down the side of the van?

You can also use a Cab Bunk, instead of across the van span it between the 5th seat & the drivers seat lengthways
I have considered many options to carry my cycle inside the van ... but alas! I have a wife (to carry inside the van) ... :Nailbiting ;) :bananadance2
 
I also want to carry an ebike inside the Cali, but in order to minimize the inconvenience, this means I have to focus on a folder. Luckily I don't need a MTB otherwise I would be stuffed.
 
I also want to carry an ebike inside the Cali, but in order to minimize the inconvenience, this means I have to focus on a folder. Luckily I don't need a MTB otherwise I would be stuffed.

Can recommend one of these as a folder, they are super quick!…my daily commuter:

 
Can recommend one of these as a folder, they are super quick!…my daily commuter:

Actually looking for an ebike to take the strain, and the Tern Vektron S10 is top of my list currently. Nothing worse than getting back to the van all sweaty after an early morning trip into the village to collect my baguette and pain au chocolat.
 
Actually looking for an ebike to take the strain, and the Tern Vektron S10 is top of my list currently. Nothing worse than getting back to the van all sweaty after an early morning trip into the village to collect my baguette and pain au chocolat.
Nothing beats a Brompton in the folding category. Go for the e Brompton, or get an old Brompton and go for the Swytch kit.
 
I’m interested on your thoughts about the Ducato…?
As I’ve now changed to a 2022 Ducato, I can quite confidently say. I hate it…!!!
Love the camping side, not so keen on the Fiat platform.

I drive a cough *Ford* for work and think it’s great. Maybe better than the Volkswagen. Shock horror, but it works really well and feels solid as a rock.
 
I’m interested on your thoughts about the Ducato…?
As I’ve now changed to a 2022 Ducato, I can quite confidently say. I hate it…!!!
Love the camping side, not so keen on the Fiat platform.

I drive a cough *Ford* for work and think it’s great. Maybe better than the Volkswagen. Shock horror, but it works really well and feels solid as a rock.
I’d forgotten about your Ducato…. What don’t you like about it? We had a Hymer Ayers Rock in 2018…… always thought nice enough but not as well built as Globecar and always felt like driving a delivery or builders van
 
I’d forgotten about your Ducato…. What don’t you like about it? We had a Hymer Ayers Rock in 2018…… always thought nice enough but not as well built as Globecar and always felt like driving a delivery or builders van

It’s growing on me, slowly.
But lots of hard plastic compared to the Cali and the Ducato is very agricultural too.
I’m glad I specced the auto box and digital dash as this does help. But not keen on the cruise control buttons on the steering wheel, prefer a stalk and some of the screen controls.
I fitted rear parking sensor last week, which has been a nice addition.

On the plus point, the square box of the Fiat really maximises the space inside for camping. It’s huge, compared to anything else on the market.

It’s just not as nice to drive as a California, not even close.
 
I’m interested on your thoughts about the Ducato…?
As I’ve now changed to a 2022 Ducato, I can quite confidently say. I hate it…!!!
Love the camping side, not so keen on the Fiat platform.

I drive a cough *Ford* for work and think it’s great. Maybe better than the Volkswagen. Shock horror, but it works really well and feels solid as a rock.
Mine is earlier and manual so a tougher drive to begin with, yet I'm comparing it to an 06 manual Cali.
Around town it feels very spritley and lighter steering and pedals that the Cali. Hit a hill though and it feels less powerful.
It is clearly more van like than the car like Cali. Plastic quality is cheap and nasty vs a vw, but I totally accept that in a camper. If I remember correctly @CaliforniaTime spoke about this when they hired an rv recently in Australia. Its part of the adventure.
It's amazing how little the ducato has changed since this model launched in 2007. Obviously its had face-lifts to the front and dash upgrades, but the dash has improved, especially recently.

The space inside is frankly amazing and they seem pretty rot proof, so hopefully they will retain thir value for a while.
 
The new 9 speed Fiat automatic transmission is getting lots of praise. Would be an obvious option to check on a large van.
 
The new 9 speed Fiat automatic transmission is getting lots of praise. Would be an obvious option to check on a large van.

Got the 9 speed auto. It’s works great.
Shame about the rest of the Fiat. It’s just so agricultural…

Sold the Cali last September, boy am I missing it now. Actually started looking at used Beaches, but may even consider another Ocean.
Believe it or not. We too, think having two vans might be the way forward. The missis loves the camping side of the Fiat and doesn’t want to return to the little shoebox (her words not mine).
I hate the Fiat as a daily and it’s a royal PITA.

295A1C77-E454-4611-A248-13A7203D6BD3.jpeg
 
Got the 9 speed auto. It’s works great.
Shame about the rest of the Fiat. It’s just so agricultural…

Sold the Cali last September, boy am I missing it now. Actually started looking at used Beaches, but may even consider another Ocean.
Believe it or not. We too, think having two vans might be the way forward. The missis loves the camping side of the Fiat and doesn’t want to return to the little shoebox (her words not mine).
I hate the Fiat as a daily and it’s a royal PITA.

View attachment 105764
I know exactly how you feel hence Ocean - GC600 - Ocean
I cant currently justify both.
Ive done more miles in the Ocean in 2 months than we did in the GC600 in a year that says it all really.

I might even have to consider an Ocean towing a wobble box as a compromise. If Knaus had put into production the one they designed to match the cali, I would go for that.
For those that havn't seen it, it looked like the rear of a cali made into a caravan, interior had the same seat materials, pop top cabinet colours etc. Externally it was the same colour, height & profile etc so really designed to match. I seem to remember it was even on the same wheels as the van.

Found a little pic from the thread in 2012!

visual_tourer_seite_01.jpg
 
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I know exactly how you feel hence Ocean - GC600 - Ocean
I cant currently justify both.
Ive done more miles in the Ocean in 2 months than we did in the GC600 in a year that says it all really.

Yep.
Thought we would use the bigger van more.
Turns out, it’s less. I avoid driving it unless we absolute need too.
The Fiat has only 1500 miles on.

It’s great once you’re at the camp site. The comfortable fixed bed, hot water, additional space and a proper toilet.
But in every other area, the California wins hands down…
 
Yep.
Thought we would use the bigger van more.
Turns out, it’s less. I avoid driving it unless we absolute need too.
The Fiat has only 1500 miles on.

It’s great once you’re at the camp site. The comfortable fixed bed, hot water, additional space and a proper toilet.
But in every other area, the California wins hands down…
a neighbor here has just bought a big white on a Ducato 9 chassis, with head up display, 9speed auto etc. I must admit i find the Ducato much more like a car than i once did . It is quite pleasant inside, which contrasts with your definition of "agricultural" - like. On the other hand the T6.1 is more hard "plasticky" compared to the Ocean T6 which instead derived from a Multivan which is in effect a car, sort of.
The Ducato also derives from commercial vehicles unlike the Cali Ocean t6. But it looks really modern... Sure it will never be as nimble like a Cali , it also two different classes (Ducato-Crafter ; T6/6.1 - Scudo or whatever the smaller Fiat van is called)
 
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